6 ms·

'A black hole': New graduates discover a dismal job market

82 points by koolba 1y ago

techpineapple 1y ago
I always find personal stories and quotes a weird way to tell these kinds of stories. Someone is always frustrated trying to find a job, right? Every field has ups and downs over time, and I know people whose fields were having a down turn in 2021 when tech was hotter than ever. AI engineers aren’t in a slump I assume, nurses are classically understaffed right?
- fennec-posix 1y ago
  I think that's part of it, however it does seem the barrier to entry for anything now is a lot higher. People can argue what's causing that as they may, I cannot say for sure what causes it. Could be economic, could be cultural/procedural within corporates.
  - la64710 1y ago
    Offshoring … (not h1bs)
- cherryteastain 1y ago
  > AI engineers aren’t in a slump I assume It's in a slump if you are a junior. You see these stories about experienced guys getting ridiculous comp packages, but if you are fresh out of undergrad getting especially a researcher position at a top outfit is very difficult.
  - herval 1y ago
    We hear about a literal _dozen_ people getting those ridiculous packages. A dozen people versus hundreds of thousands on the unemployment line.
- an0malous 1y ago
  > The national economic data backs up their experience. The unemployment rate among recent graduates has been increasing this year to an average of 5.3%, compared to around 4% for the labor force as a whole, making it one of the toughest job markets for recent graduates since 2015, according to an analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York released Friday.
  - sarchertech 1y ago
    The toughest since 2015 hardly seems like anything noteworthy.
unencumberednut 1y ago
I had graduated in 1984 and the market had dried up significantly until 1985, then it was booming. But, that year I searched for employment (crickets) and getting engaged in eventual very high tech, it was a great time, and I look back fondly at the personal journey. I dug ditches, painted apartments, and advanced myself. And I still tell people out of school and searching, enjoy the time to be un-interrupted as you will get fully engaged at some point and find yourself busy for the next 40 years.
- SpaceNoodled 1y ago
  And they can just eat dried paint chips and sleep in the ditches!
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- strathmeyer 1y ago
  I graduated in 2004 with a BS in computer science from CMU. I was always told I hadn't worked hard enough to become a software developer, even though that's what I was doing in minimum wage jobs where my title was DBA. Finally gave up after 12 years of searching. YMMV. It was weird when all my professors who said they'd help me find a job if I couldn't find one suddenly didn't have any time for me. Start your life now don't wait just because society tells you that's what you're supposed to do.
butterlettuce 1y ago
All of a sudden I don't hear the "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" folks anymore. Where did they go? Are they in the unemployment line, too?
- jamboca 1y ago
  in fact, they are. know many of these people and helping one of them get re hired right now. and you can be sure they never expected this to hit them!
- bloqs 1y ago
  the Boomer retirement(or lack of) bomb is currently going off. This generation had quite a large cohort who experienced an economic "miracle" throughout their childhood, and developed a troublesome and largely unrealistic grasp of pay and quality of life level for expected labour. They were the generation of just showing up to work and a firm handshake was enough for automatic promotion over time.
  - jleyank 1y ago
    Boomers are in their 60’s and up. Covid took some away, certainly their jobs. People who still had a pension took it and are gone. Social starts up ok at 62-63 if you’ve done ok saving. And judging from the typical ageism we all discuss here people just ain’t interesting by that age. So they’re not taking up jobs like they used to. Houses, yeah, but unless you’re going to dump them offshore ya gotta live somewhere. Many have or are downsizing which frees up larger houses in desirable areas. Not their fault that investment firms are inhaling houses to give them a better return than stocks. And remember all this retirement savings stuff has to start paying its taxes at 72 or 73 so the government gets their share. Downward price pressure won’t help the market but one has to sell to eat.
- herval 1y ago
  I know a dozen of those, and most of them are "starting their own company (stealth)" - aka they're unemployed for many months. It's all very weird (despite people saying "it's going to start improving" for 2 years now)
pvtmert 1y ago
I think people have exceedingly high-expectations due to make-believe social-media content. What I see amongst all the people is that both skill and the quality of work decreasing. Which is why, arguably, AI _is_ taking over entry-level jobs. High percentage of new generation spend their time on TikTok & Instagram, watching reels & stories of some popular/famous people, who tend to have some money (high chance of inheritance or rich family), posing as a "regular" person on the street. Take this quote for example; “I told myself, by 26, I’d have my own house, I’d have my own family, I’d have my nice little luxury car. That hasn’t happened.” This is an unrealistic by definition. I don't know what sort of thing a person needs to smoke to come to a conclusion that having _all_ of these, including a luxury car, is a norm for a 26 year old. By definition, if everyone has that _luxury car_, that car would not be a luxury item in the first place. Unless a person inherits a house, it would take at least 10 years (probably 30) to fully own one. One can probably buy/lease a car, probably second hand, but that's unlikely to be a `luxury` vehicle. Another point is, while some people had adequate pictures/images posted, some did not even bother to put an effort to give a proper picture to the newspaper article. I am not a "wear a suit" person at all, but this attitude clearly shows how much care certain people put into actual work. Would you hire a such person who does sloppy job even at the job application? I would certainly not.
- cameldrv 1y ago
  In the baby boom generation it was pretty normal to be married, have a (small) house, and a kid or two by 26-30 or so. From the families I know of that era, usually they had a lower end car and probably just one for the family. This seems pretty uncommon for the zoomers I know.
  - kulahan 1y ago
    I simply don’t believe this is as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I still think it’s an issue of heightened expectations. There is a strong belief that everyone should be able to afford a place to live, alone, in some place with a convenient location (downtown or within walking distance of transit), and then after a few years you should be able to buy a house. When I grew up, I had multiple roommates, and we’d carpool whenever possible. I scrimped and saved pretty hard to get a down payment saved up. By my day’s standards, it wasn’t crazy to cook 99% of your own food, brew all your coffee at home or the office (hopefully free), get any free food you can possibly convince your employer to give you, and have one TV everyone fights over. My dad made his own “furniture” (until my mom moved in and smacked some sense into him…). My mom grew up sleeping in an hot attic with 3 siblings, because the other 5 siblings took up all available rooms. I’m not saying life shouldn’t improve each generation, but I think people are expecting it to improve way faster than it actually is.
mixmastamyk 1y ago
Why do these always/only talk about new graduates? My last contract ended, and I haven’t had a real interview in over a year.
- kulahan 1y ago
  Because their unemployment rates specifically are catastrophic levels. I’ve seen reports as high as 19%. Fortunately, other demographics simply aren’t experiencing difficulties at this level. As an aside, I personally noticed the market pick up hard in the last few weeks. I work in a niche industry, but get ads for software dev jobs regularly and they’ve really surged lately. The past year truly was a difficult time to find a job.
- daemonologist 1y ago
  The fact that pretty much all new grads are having a more difficult time finding employment than in the past makes it harder to dismiss. If you write a story about 10% of experienced workers being un/underemployed, it's easy for readers to say "oh, that's just structural unemployment" or "they must not be that good at their job," even if someone paying attention to the numbers would know that it used to be 5% (or whatever).
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    Ok, yet the group of all unemployed unable to get an interview is larger.
- anigbrowl 1y ago
  Because it's an easy to story they can run every summer - 'how are graduates doing in the job market? we asked 5 of them'.
neom 1y ago
My sister and law and from what I can tell, most of her friends, are going on almost 2 years post college job hunting now in South Korea - https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/07/17/SZTLLAZHIJH3DNJQD6FLXAFM6E/ https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/07/17/SZTLLA... And the running discussion over there is that Hyundai owns Boston Dynamics so they expect all their jobs to be replaced by either AI or Robots in the coming years.
- jjani 1y ago
  The situation in Korea is completely different. There are tens of thousands of jobs available, including white collar, but people don't want to work for those companies - everyone goes for the exact same handful of jobs, the very top. And because unlike in most of the West it's culturally acceptable to live with ones parents for 2 years while continuously applying for those jobs, that's what many people do. It's a tradeoff. In fact, the parents often actively enable and support this strategy. Unthinkable in the West. This is nothing like "I sent 300 resumes to every place in the country and can't get a job". Of course, such people do exist, but those are in majors/fields in which it was already near-impossible 10 years ago to get a job in most of the world. If everyone in Denmark would go "Maersk, Novo Nordisk, Carlsberg or bust", you'd see the exact same. Honestly, your story indicates that your sister-in-law and her friends are likely at least middle class. Those who simply can't afford to sit around for 2 years (lower class) do just get a job straight away.
  - neom 1y ago
    Can you provide a link to labour statistics indicating that? I don't think what you're saying is true at all, I'd be curious to read your source.
    - jjani 1y ago
      https://www.munhwa.com/article/11487922 https://www.munhwa.com/article/11487922 But really, being deeply ingrained into society and having personally worked at such places here in Korea is worth more than flawed statistics, which really all statistics are when it comes to these topics. I've literally personally interviewed the very few applicants we got as a small company outside of Seoul. They didn't know the difference between a GET and a POST; these were people applying as a backend API developers. We had to train people from absolute zero. And this was at a "modern" workplace ran by young leadership, which should theoretically be much more attractive - one of the, if not the number 1 most commonly named reason for not wanting to work for smaller companies (and even moreso outside of Seoul) is "old(-school) working culture". https://www.segye.com/newsView/20250327517804 https://www.segye.com/newsView/20250327517804 These companies aren't like Silicon Valley startups abusing H1Bs, hiring foreigners because they're cheaper, Koreans genuinely aren't applying. Go ask her and her friends how many 중소 outside of 수도권 they've applied to. Again, if they've studied something like German language or archaeology then sure, but people aren't getting jobs in those fields in Sweden (to name a completely random high HDI country) either.
throwaway984393 1y ago
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mcherm 1y ago
So, my son just graduated at the start of the summer with a dual degree in Math and Computer Science. He would like to find an entry level job in software engineering. Does anyone have any advice to give him?
- apwell23 1y ago
  try places like salt lake city, Charlotte NC
- anotherhue 1y ago
  Rapidly pivot to AI engineering
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    Chasing rapidly evolving trends is rarely the best bet. The people who pivoted to NFTs and Web3 wouldn’t have succeeded unless they built general tech knowledge along the way.
    - physicsguy 1y ago
      I also have seen quite a few NFT/crypto people coming out bruised and struggling to find a new role because of the association. A guy I work with was like that.
- Rover222 1y ago
  build personal projects incorporating AI (custom mcp servers, LLM integrations, etc), and reach out to people directly on LinkedIn who might be hiring.
- trebligdivad 1y ago
  Look for startups connected to the university he graduated from.
- armitron 1y ago
  Unless he ticks two or (ideally) more of the following: - graduated summa cum laude - from a top university (MIT, Stanford, CMU, Cornell, Berkeley) - lives and breathes tech, writes code for fun in his personal time, iron-clad determination to succeed - has strong personal projects that show off his top-notch technical skills he should seriously consider doing something else. The tech field is pretty much over for new grads and it's going to get harder and harder.
Rover222 1y ago
I know a lot of junior developers who just gave up on that industry over the last 2 years. It seems truly rough for them. But also that's comparing it to the general boom over the previous 10-15 years. I have about 10 yrs experience, and just conducted my first job hunt in 5 years (I was with one company for a long time, then took a sabbatical for half a year after our dev team was off-shored). I was pretty concerned that it could take 6 months or more to find a gig. But I found myself interviewing with 6 or 7 companies within two weeks, and had 2 offers by the end of week 3 (I'm starting the new gig tomorrow). I consider myself a pretty average full-stack rails/react dev. I don't even bother applying to FANG (or whatever the acronym is now) jobs. So... I don't know if I just got lucky, but the job market felt pretty good when looking for senior roles. My interviews were a mix of referrals from previous coworkers, a couple recruiters reaching out, and (the job I accepted) from reaching out on LinkedIn to hiring managers posting jobs. It feels like the AI wave is killing junior jobs, but driving demand for experienced developers to harness it, even if just harnessing it as a tool to speed up coding.
- jameshush 1y ago
  Referrals are the key to non-FAANG jobs. I also have over 10 years of experience, with six of those years spent working under the same supervisor across two different jobs. Four of those years were two different jobs, thanks to strong referrals from my previous boss and the one I worked with for 6 years before that. I fumbled a bit early in my career and burned some bridges, but luckily, I smartened up after the first 2ish years. I figured if I have 10+ years of experience and do not have at least 5-10 people I can call up to ask for a job who've worked with me in the past, I've screwed up. Investing in relationships has been the key job security hack for me (also a completely average React dev who happens to know an above-average amount about video and webrtc).
  - Rover222 1y ago
    Yeah, very helpful to have a solid network like that. My other job offer was from a previous manager wanting to recruit me. But yeah, tough out there to land your first job right now.
  - 1y ago
Havoc 1y ago
Bit confused by the mentions of 50k and above salary but can’t afford to move out because rent is above a grand Last I checked a year has 12 months so that should easily work no?
- orev 1y ago
  Salaries are usually quoted in before-tax dollars, while paying rent happens after tax. Any place where rent is around “a grand“ also requires a car (and insurance) to survive. That 50k gets used up quickly.
- AlotOfReading 1y ago
  No? That leaves you with a bit over $3k monthly post-tax in a no-income tax state for benefit of the doubt. Applying the 30% of income rule landlords commonly use, that means you can afford about $900/mo max. The average US rent is currently >$1600. Checking my local area, you'd be able to afford 0.5% of the current listings with that income. I'm certain that most of those units are low income housing with special application processes and eligibility criteria though.
- tennisflyi 1y ago
  30% of $50k is $1,250. Up to you if that’s enough margin
- persolb 1y ago
  It is doable but highly location based and still really tight. I’m in a tier 2 US city. Our interns wage would equate to $58k annually. A car isn’t needed if in the city. Most people have a roommate, which works out to just over $1k a person. 58 (pay) - 21 (tax) - 13 (rent) -13 (transit) leaves $900/month or $30/day. Full time grads are around $20k higher….so roughly triple the amount left over. Or you commute further. I’m mid career and commuted more than hour most of my career because it let me get a better/cheaper apartment while affording a used car.
monster_truck 1y ago
It's real fuckin bad, folks. Most everyone I know, at all skill levels, go hundreds of applications deep before finally landing a real interview let alone a job these days (in far more than just tech, too). Their unemployment runs out and they can't even get in as a bartender or at a gas station. I used to love helping people find jobs they want, my own way of paying it forward from the people who did that for me, now nothing seems to work. I interview extremely well, until 2022 I typically got the job I wanted on the first try, they used to find me! Now direct referrals to CEOs or founders from investors or employees result in them ghosting. I've also paradoxically been told that I'm overqualified and should be applying for eng lead/principal/cto positions... and that I don't have enough experience to apply for those roles when I do. I've just been stringing together small bullshit contracts to pay for vices in the meantime, halfway coasting off passive income. Vaguely it feels like something shitty is coming and it's being drawn out in an attempt to lessen the impact but it's being fucked up by everything else. Reminds me of shortly before 2008, when a lot of the people who knew they'd be getting laid off found out. I really do not think it's offshoring, either. The crews I have contracted work out to in the past (Eastern Europe, South Korea, Japan) are asking me if I've got anything for them, they've never done that before.
- lifestyleguru 1y ago
  > Vaguely it feels like something shitty is coming and it's being drawn out in an attempt to lessen the impact but it's being fucked up by everything else. Reminds me of shortly before 2008, when a lot of the people who knew they'd be getting laid off found out. The economies of entire developed world have been edging since 2020 and every attempt to release was terminated with another violent punch. One pattern within Europe is noticeable though. Countries one by one are overtaken by mafia with legal immunity, and every cash is allocated into luxury cars and real estate.
jmpman 1y ago
Why is there no feedback mechanism on the number of H1Bs issued each year? If American citizens are graduating and can’t find a job, certainly we don’t need as many H1Bs.
- msgodel 1y ago
  We never needed any, but we have no real say in how our country is run so that doesn't matter.
  - jmpman 1y ago
    I disagree, but when I see low quality software engineers coming in on H1B, I know there are US citizens who could have done that job. I see Customer Support Managers, Solutions Architects, Software Managers, all with H1B. Any of those jobs could be performed by a US citizen. What the US needs are the higher tier engineers. The ones which are in short supply in the US.
    - msgodel 1y ago
      The higher tier engineers come over on a completely different visa. H1B is just a new version of international slave trade but no one wants to admit it because it sounds bad.
      - jmpman 1y ago
        I’ve worked with H1B engineers who vary in skill by at least 2 orders of magnitude. Neither of them are eligible for the “completely different visa”. Yet we keep bringing in the dregs because of the lottery system, and they stay around because of the body shops who are just billing head count.
- lifestyleguru 1y ago
  This is trend in Europe as well. Native population is "too expensive" and "not suitably qualified" while businesses continue importing cheap labour in coaches.
deleted 1y ago
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tennisflyi 1y ago
This is exactly my experience. Entry level/“have a pulse” jobs will ghost now
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code51 1y ago
Junior jobs will come back when blitz-pricing of AI coding products end. Current bosses think these prices with 200/mo to "leave it and auto-code for the whole month, day and night" will stay like this. Of course it won't. Typical startup play but in massive scale. Junior jobs might come back but not in bulk, still selective, very slowly.
- positr0n 1y ago
  If that’s your thesis, $200/mo has a lot of room for price increases before you start reaching Jr dev salary/mo.
sudohalt 1y ago
[flagged]
anonzzzies 1y ago
It is so strange... around me in the Netherlands, the fresh graduates (kids of friends, cousins, nephews) cannot stop the inflow of job offers. The ones that graduated this summer all have jobs lined up for september. Wonder what's happening.
qewrhkefhked 1y ago
My biggest mistake was doing a MSc in AI. In hindsight it was a massive waste of time and I should have just aggressively mass applied to jobs and practiced for interviews as much as possible. After getting my BSc the rest meant nothing, portfolio / side projects, self-study, MSc, going to a high ranked university. All meant nothing, it comes down to applying / interviewing using maximum brute force. The rest in hindsight was largely irrelevant.

82 points by koolba 1y ago

I always find personal stories and quotes a weird way to tell these kinds of stories. Someone is always frustrated trying to find a job, right? Every field has ups and downs over time, and I know people whose fields were having a down turn in 2021 when tech was hotter than ever. AI engineers aren’t in a slump I assume, nurses are classically understaffed right?

fennec-posix 1y ago
I think that's part of it, however it does seem the barrier to entry for anything now is a lot higher. People can argue what's causing that as they may, I cannot say for sure what causes it. Could be economic, could be cultural/procedural within corporates.
- la64710 1y ago
  Offshoring … (not h1bs)
cherryteastain 1y ago
> AI engineers aren’t in a slump I assume It's in a slump if you are a junior. You see these stories about experienced guys getting ridiculous comp packages, but if you are fresh out of undergrad getting especially a researcher position at a top outfit is very difficult.
- herval 1y ago
  We hear about a literal _dozen_ people getting those ridiculous packages. A dozen people versus hundreds of thousands on the unemployment line.
an0malous 1y ago
> The national economic data backs up their experience. The unemployment rate among recent graduates has been increasing this year to an average of 5.3%, compared to around 4% for the labor force as a whole, making it one of the toughest job markets for recent graduates since 2015, according to an analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York released Friday.
- sarchertech 1y ago
  The toughest since 2015 hardly seems like anything noteworthy.

unencumberednut 1y ago

I had graduated in 1984 and the market had dried up significantly until 1985, then it was booming. But, that year I searched for employment (crickets) and getting engaged in eventual very high tech, it was a great time, and I look back fondly at the personal journey. I dug ditches, painted apartments, and advanced myself. And I still tell people out of school and searching, enjoy the time to be un-interrupted as you will get fully engaged at some point and find yourself busy for the next 40 years.

SpaceNoodled 1y ago
And they can just eat dried paint chips and sleep in the ditches!
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strathmeyer 1y ago
I graduated in 2004 with a BS in computer science from CMU. I was always told I hadn't worked hard enough to become a software developer, even though that's what I was doing in minimum wage jobs where my title was DBA. Finally gave up after 12 years of searching. YMMV. It was weird when all my professors who said they'd help me find a job if I couldn't find one suddenly didn't have any time for me. Start your life now don't wait just because society tells you that's what you're supposed to do.

butterlettuce 1y ago

All of a sudden I don't hear the "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" folks anymore. Where did they go? Are they in the unemployment line, too?

jamboca 1y ago
in fact, they are. know many of these people and helping one of them get re hired right now. and you can be sure they never expected this to hit them!
bloqs 1y ago
the Boomer retirement(or lack of) bomb is currently going off. This generation had quite a large cohort who experienced an economic "miracle" throughout their childhood, and developed a troublesome and largely unrealistic grasp of pay and quality of life level for expected labour. They were the generation of just showing up to work and a firm handshake was enough for automatic promotion over time.
- jleyank 1y ago
  Boomers are in their 60’s and up. Covid took some away, certainly their jobs. People who still had a pension took it and are gone. Social starts up ok at 62-63 if you’ve done ok saving. And judging from the typical ageism we all discuss here people just ain’t interesting by that age. So they’re not taking up jobs like they used to. Houses, yeah, but unless you’re going to dump them offshore ya gotta live somewhere. Many have or are downsizing which frees up larger houses in desirable areas. Not their fault that investment firms are inhaling houses to give them a better return than stocks. And remember all this retirement savings stuff has to start paying its taxes at 72 or 73 so the government gets their share. Downward price pressure won’t help the market but one has to sell to eat.
herval 1y ago
I know a dozen of those, and most of them are "starting their own company (stealth)" - aka they're unemployed for many months. It's all very weird (despite people saying "it's going to start improving" for 2 years now)

pvtmert 1y ago

I think people have exceedingly high-expectations due to make-believe social-media content. What I see amongst all the people is that both skill and the quality of work decreasing. Which is why, arguably, AI _is_ taking over entry-level jobs. High percentage of new generation spend their time on TikTok & Instagram, watching reels & stories of some popular/famous people, who tend to have some money (high chance of inheritance or rich family), posing as a "regular" person on the street. Take this quote for example; “I told myself, by 26, I’d have my own house, I’d have my own family, I’d have my nice little luxury car. That hasn’t happened.” This is an unrealistic by definition. I don't know what sort of thing a person needs to smoke to come to a conclusion that having _all_ of these, including a luxury car, is a norm for a 26 year old. By definition, if everyone has that _luxury car_, that car would not be a luxury item in the first place. Unless a person inherits a house, it would take at least 10 years (probably 30) to fully own one. One can probably buy/lease a car, probably second hand, but that's unlikely to be a `luxury` vehicle. Another point is, while some people had adequate pictures/images posted, some did not even bother to put an effort to give a proper picture to the newspaper article. I am not a "wear a suit" person at all, but this attitude clearly shows how much care certain people put into actual work. Would you hire a such person who does sloppy job even at the job application? I would certainly not.

cameldrv 1y ago
In the baby boom generation it was pretty normal to be married, have a (small) house, and a kid or two by 26-30 or so. From the families I know of that era, usually they had a lower end car and probably just one for the family. This seems pretty uncommon for the zoomers I know.
- kulahan 1y ago
  I simply don’t believe this is as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I still think it’s an issue of heightened expectations. There is a strong belief that everyone should be able to afford a place to live, alone, in some place with a convenient location (downtown or within walking distance of transit), and then after a few years you should be able to buy a house. When I grew up, I had multiple roommates, and we’d carpool whenever possible. I scrimped and saved pretty hard to get a down payment saved up. By my day’s standards, it wasn’t crazy to cook 99% of your own food, brew all your coffee at home or the office (hopefully free), get any free food you can possibly convince your employer to give you, and have one TV everyone fights over. My dad made his own “furniture” (until my mom moved in and smacked some sense into him…). My mom grew up sleeping in an hot attic with 3 siblings, because the other 5 siblings took up all available rooms. I’m not saying life shouldn’t improve each generation, but I think people are expecting it to improve way faster than it actually is.

mixmastamyk 1y ago

Why do these always/only talk about new graduates? My last contract ended, and I haven’t had a real interview in over a year.

kulahan 1y ago
Because their unemployment rates specifically are catastrophic levels. I’ve seen reports as high as 19%. Fortunately, other demographics simply aren’t experiencing difficulties at this level. As an aside, I personally noticed the market pick up hard in the last few weeks. I work in a niche industry, but get ads for software dev jobs regularly and they’ve really surged lately. The past year truly was a difficult time to find a job.
daemonologist 1y ago
The fact that pretty much all new grads are having a more difficult time finding employment than in the past makes it harder to dismiss. If you write a story about 10% of experienced workers being un/underemployed, it's easy for readers to say "oh, that's just structural unemployment" or "they must not be that good at their job," even if someone paying attention to the numbers would know that it used to be 5% (or whatever).
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  Ok, yet the group of all unemployed unable to get an interview is larger.
anigbrowl 1y ago
Because it's an easy to story they can run every summer - 'how are graduates doing in the job market? we asked 5 of them'.

neom 1y ago

My sister and law and from what I can tell, most of her friends, are going on almost 2 years post college job hunting now in South Korea - https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/07/17/SZTLLAZHIJH3DNJQD6FLXAFM6E/ https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/07/17/SZTLLA... And the running discussion over there is that Hyundai owns Boston Dynamics so they expect all their jobs to be replaced by either AI or Robots in the coming years.

jjani 1y ago
The situation in Korea is completely different. There are tens of thousands of jobs available, including white collar, but people don't want to work for those companies - everyone goes for the exact same handful of jobs, the very top. And because unlike in most of the West it's culturally acceptable to live with ones parents for 2 years while continuously applying for those jobs, that's what many people do. It's a tradeoff. In fact, the parents often actively enable and support this strategy. Unthinkable in the West. This is nothing like "I sent 300 resumes to every place in the country and can't get a job". Of course, such people do exist, but those are in majors/fields in which it was already near-impossible 10 years ago to get a job in most of the world. If everyone in Denmark would go "Maersk, Novo Nordisk, Carlsberg or bust", you'd see the exact same. Honestly, your story indicates that your sister-in-law and her friends are likely at least middle class. Those who simply can't afford to sit around for 2 years (lower class) do just get a job straight away.
- neom 1y ago
  Can you provide a link to labour statistics indicating that? I don't think what you're saying is true at all, I'd be curious to read your source.
  - jjani 1y ago
    https://www.munhwa.com/article/11487922 https://www.munhwa.com/article/11487922 But really, being deeply ingrained into society and having personally worked at such places here in Korea is worth more than flawed statistics, which really all statistics are when it comes to these topics. I've literally personally interviewed the very few applicants we got as a small company outside of Seoul. They didn't know the difference between a GET and a POST; these were people applying as a backend API developers. We had to train people from absolute zero. And this was at a "modern" workplace ran by young leadership, which should theoretically be much more attractive - one of the, if not the number 1 most commonly named reason for not wanting to work for smaller companies (and even moreso outside of Seoul) is "old(-school) working culture". https://www.segye.com/newsView/20250327517804 https://www.segye.com/newsView/20250327517804 These companies aren't like Silicon Valley startups abusing H1Bs, hiring foreigners because they're cheaper, Koreans genuinely aren't applying. Go ask her and her friends how many 중소 outside of 수도권 they've applied to. Again, if they've studied something like German language or archaeology then sure, but people aren't getting jobs in those fields in Sweden (to name a completely random high HDI country) either.

throwaway984393 1y ago

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mcherm 1y ago

So, my son just graduated at the start of the summer with a dual degree in Math and Computer Science. He would like to find an entry level job in software engineering. Does anyone have any advice to give him?

apwell23 1y ago
try places like salt lake city, Charlotte NC
anotherhue 1y ago
Rapidly pivot to AI engineering
- Gigachad 1y ago
  Chasing rapidly evolving trends is rarely the best bet. The people who pivoted to NFTs and Web3 wouldn’t have succeeded unless they built general tech knowledge along the way.
  - physicsguy 1y ago
    I also have seen quite a few NFT/crypto people coming out bruised and struggling to find a new role because of the association. A guy I work with was like that.
Rover222 1y ago
build personal projects incorporating AI (custom mcp servers, LLM integrations, etc), and reach out to people directly on LinkedIn who might be hiring.
trebligdivad 1y ago
Look for startups connected to the university he graduated from.
armitron 1y ago
Unless he ticks two or (ideally) more of the following: - graduated summa cum laude - from a top university (MIT, Stanford, CMU, Cornell, Berkeley) - lives and breathes tech, writes code for fun in his personal time, iron-clad determination to succeed - has strong personal projects that show off his top-notch technical skills he should seriously consider doing something else. The tech field is pretty much over for new grads and it's going to get harder and harder.

Rover222 1y ago

I know a lot of junior developers who just gave up on that industry over the last 2 years. It seems truly rough for them. But also that's comparing it to the general boom over the previous 10-15 years. I have about 10 yrs experience, and just conducted my first job hunt in 5 years (I was with one company for a long time, then took a sabbatical for half a year after our dev team was off-shored). I was pretty concerned that it could take 6 months or more to find a gig. But I found myself interviewing with 6 or 7 companies within two weeks, and had 2 offers by the end of week 3 (I'm starting the new gig tomorrow). I consider myself a pretty average full-stack rails/react dev. I don't even bother applying to FANG (or whatever the acronym is now) jobs. So... I don't know if I just got lucky, but the job market felt pretty good when looking for senior roles. My interviews were a mix of referrals from previous coworkers, a couple recruiters reaching out, and (the job I accepted) from reaching out on LinkedIn to hiring managers posting jobs. It feels like the AI wave is killing junior jobs, but driving demand for experienced developers to harness it, even if just harnessing it as a tool to speed up coding.

jameshush 1y ago
Referrals are the key to non-FAANG jobs. I also have over 10 years of experience, with six of those years spent working under the same supervisor across two different jobs. Four of those years were two different jobs, thanks to strong referrals from my previous boss and the one I worked with for 6 years before that. I fumbled a bit early in my career and burned some bridges, but luckily, I smartened up after the first 2ish years. I figured if I have 10+ years of experience and do not have at least 5-10 people I can call up to ask for a job who've worked with me in the past, I've screwed up. Investing in relationships has been the key job security hack for me (also a completely average React dev who happens to know an above-average amount about video and webrtc).
- Rover222 1y ago
  Yeah, very helpful to have a solid network like that. My other job offer was from a previous manager wanting to recruit me. But yeah, tough out there to land your first job right now.
- 1y ago

Havoc 1y ago

Bit confused by the mentions of 50k and above salary but can’t afford to move out because rent is above a grand Last I checked a year has 12 months so that should easily work no?

orev 1y ago
Salaries are usually quoted in before-tax dollars, while paying rent happens after tax. Any place where rent is around “a grand“ also requires a car (and insurance) to survive. That 50k gets used up quickly.
AlotOfReading 1y ago
No? That leaves you with a bit over $3k monthly post-tax in a no-income tax state for benefit of the doubt. Applying the 30% of income rule landlords commonly use, that means you can afford about $900/mo max. The average US rent is currently >$1600. Checking my local area, you'd be able to afford 0.5% of the current listings with that income. I'm certain that most of those units are low income housing with special application processes and eligibility criteria though.
tennisflyi 1y ago
30% of $50k is $1,250. Up to you if that’s enough margin
persolb 1y ago
It is doable but highly location based and still really tight. I’m in a tier 2 US city. Our interns wage would equate to $58k annually. A car isn’t needed if in the city. Most people have a roommate, which works out to just over $1k a person. 58 (pay) - 21 (tax) - 13 (rent) -13 (transit) leaves $900/month or $30/day. Full time grads are around $20k higher….so roughly triple the amount left over. Or you commute further. I’m mid career and commuted more than hour most of my career because it let me get a better/cheaper apartment while affording a used car.

monster_truck 1y ago

It's real fuckin bad, folks. Most everyone I know, at all skill levels, go hundreds of applications deep before finally landing a real interview let alone a job these days (in far more than just tech, too). Their unemployment runs out and they can't even get in as a bartender or at a gas station. I used to love helping people find jobs they want, my own way of paying it forward from the people who did that for me, now nothing seems to work. I interview extremely well, until 2022 I typically got the job I wanted on the first try, they used to find me! Now direct referrals to CEOs or founders from investors or employees result in them ghosting. I've also paradoxically been told that I'm overqualified and should be applying for eng lead/principal/cto positions... and that I don't have enough experience to apply for those roles when I do. I've just been stringing together small bullshit contracts to pay for vices in the meantime, halfway coasting off passive income. Vaguely it feels like something shitty is coming and it's being drawn out in an attempt to lessen the impact but it's being fucked up by everything else. Reminds me of shortly before 2008, when a lot of the people who knew they'd be getting laid off found out. I really do not think it's offshoring, either. The crews I have contracted work out to in the past (Eastern Europe, South Korea, Japan) are asking me if I've got anything for them, they've never done that before.

lifestyleguru 1y ago
> Vaguely it feels like something shitty is coming and it's being drawn out in an attempt to lessen the impact but it's being fucked up by everything else. Reminds me of shortly before 2008, when a lot of the people who knew they'd be getting laid off found out. The economies of entire developed world have been edging since 2020 and every attempt to release was terminated with another violent punch. One pattern within Europe is noticeable though. Countries one by one are overtaken by mafia with legal immunity, and every cash is allocated into luxury cars and real estate.

jmpman 1y ago

Why is there no feedback mechanism on the number of H1Bs issued each year? If American citizens are graduating and can’t find a job, certainly we don’t need as many H1Bs.

msgodel 1y ago
We never needed any, but we have no real say in how our country is run so that doesn't matter.
- jmpman 1y ago
  I disagree, but when I see low quality software engineers coming in on H1B, I know there are US citizens who could have done that job. I see Customer Support Managers, Solutions Architects, Software Managers, all with H1B. Any of those jobs could be performed by a US citizen. What the US needs are the higher tier engineers. The ones which are in short supply in the US.
  - msgodel 1y ago
    The higher tier engineers come over on a completely different visa. H1B is just a new version of international slave trade but no one wants to admit it because it sounds bad.
    - jmpman 1y ago
      I’ve worked with H1B engineers who vary in skill by at least 2 orders of magnitude. Neither of them are eligible for the “completely different visa”. Yet we keep bringing in the dregs because of the lottery system, and they stay around because of the body shops who are just billing head count.
lifestyleguru 1y ago
This is trend in Europe as well. Native population is "too expensive" and "not suitably qualified" while businesses continue importing cheap labour in coaches.

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tennisflyi 1y ago

This is exactly my experience. Entry level/“have a pulse” jobs will ghost now

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code51 1y ago

Junior jobs will come back when blitz-pricing of AI coding products end. Current bosses think these prices with 200/mo to "leave it and auto-code for the whole month, day and night" will stay like this. Of course it won't. Typical startup play but in massive scale. Junior jobs might come back but not in bulk, still selective, very slowly.

positr0n 1y ago
If that’s your thesis, $200/mo has a lot of room for price increases before you start reaching Jr dev salary/mo.

sudohalt 1y ago

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anonzzzies 1y ago

It is so strange... around me in the Netherlands, the fresh graduates (kids of friends, cousins, nephews) cannot stop the inflow of job offers. The ones that graduated this summer all have jobs lined up for september. Wonder what's happening.

qewrhkefhked 1y ago

My biggest mistake was doing a MSc in AI. In hindsight it was a massive waste of time and I should have just aggressively mass applied to jobs and practiced for interviews as much as possible. After getting my BSc the rest meant nothing, portfolio / side projects, self-study, MSc, going to a high ranked university. All meant nothing, it comes down to applying / interviewing using maximum brute force. The rest in hindsight was largely irrelevant.