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First, young people make a lot more than they did 10 years ago (both nominally and inflation adjusted). Second, no it does not cost 5x as much, closer to 15-20

First, young people make a lot more than they did 10 years ago (both nominally and inflation adjusted). Second, no it does not cost 5x as much, closer to 15-20% more based on all the data I could find. Anecdotally in San Francisco, NYC, and Austin it is maybe 2x more at the most expensive places. EDIT: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q

TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
This would be more convincing if you quoted data. Nothing on FRED suggests you're correct.
- mgraczyk 1y ago
  Here's men 16-24 showing 20% increase after CPI adjustment https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q
  - chongli 1y ago
    The CPI is misleading because it does silly things such as counting increases in CPU speed as “getting more computing for your money.” If all you use your computer for is word processing then you’re really not getting 1000x “more computing” for your money today than you were in the 1980s, you’re getting only minor increases in productivity.
    - nradov 1y ago
      If all you use your computer for is word processing then you can buy a low-end desktop for very little money. Computers (and other consumer electronics) are cheaper now than they have ever been. Uninformed whining about hedonic adjustments in CPI is so tiresome.
      - chongli 1y ago
        How many average home computer users are 1000X more productive with a computer today than they were with a 1980s computer? The CPI is the consumer price index. It doesn’t cover business uses of computers which take more advantage of the improved performance.
        nradov 1y ago
        The CPI doesn't measure productivity so I have no idea what point you think you're making.
        chongli 1y ago
        No it measures CPU speed, memory, etc under the assumption that scaling these provide some kind of tangible benefit to warrant the idea that we’re getting “more computer for less money” but these benefits are clearly nowhere even close to a linear relationship with CPU speed. Productivity was an example of a benefit I chose off the cuff but you could choose others. Are today’s video game consoles 1000X more fun than a NES? Given that many people actually prefer old NES games and are even willing to pay inflated prices to collect them suggests the answer is a resounding no.
        nradov 1y ago
        You are getting more computer for your money. And only a tiny niche of collectors are foolish enough to waste a lot of money on old video games. You can find the same hobbyist collectors for anything: figurines, model trains, coins, etc. Collectors are economically meaningless.
        chongli 1y ago
        The question is not: "are you getting more computer for your money?" The question is: "are you getting (anywhere near) a linear scaling of computer for your money?" Because to me the answer to the second question is a resounding "no" and the strongest evidence of that is all the people walking around with high-end iPhones who can barely afford rent on tiny single-bedroom apartments.
HaZeust 1y ago
>"First, young people make a lot more than they did 10 years ago (both nominally and inflation adjusted)." I need a source on this, like [1], and I need you to also share the cost-of-living average increases, which PLAINLY show that despite wages increasing, the increasing costs for goods and services within that same time period have outpaced wage increase percentages [2][3]. And don't be a typical HN-crowder and say ANYTHING about wages in our industries — it's white-collar work, and a functioning society sees to accomplishing an ever-progressing standard of living for members in ALL sectors of the status-quo 'bell curve'. Shit, even average household income is down 2k from 6 years ago [4] 1 - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU0500000003 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU0500000003 2 - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA 3 - https://www.kff.org/health-costs/press-release/annual-family-premiums-for-employer-coverage-rise-7-to-average-25572-in-2024-benchmark-survey-finds-after-also-rising-7-last-year/ https://www.kff.org/health-costs/press-release/annual-family... 4 - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
- mgraczyk 1y ago
  Any source will do, here is the Atlanta fed https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker Click "age" Then compare to price levels. Wages have outpaced price levels for this age group significantly Here's men 16-24 showing 20% increase after CPI adjustment https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q EDIT: the data you shared is not specific to "young people", that's why it's different. While everyone's wages are up over the last 10 years relative to prices (according to the data you shared), young people have gained much more
  - HaZeust 1y ago
    Rent, household items, cost of external activities, and health insurance (sometimes, see parents' insurance plans) are still subject to that group - which my sources show clear outpacing for - even with youth's increase in wages. For someone that lives with their parents and works full time, yeah - they've probably never had it better. But a lot of youth right now have expenses drawn out in such a way where, even if they're making more than their predecessors, they have less upwards mobility for today, let alone any potential to invest in assets that afford them any upwards mobility in the future.
kjkjadksj 1y ago
Drinks are like $15-20 now. 15 years ago I was getting double wells for like $2-5. Bars had actual legit specials too like dollar beers. Uber 10 years ago would be like $7 at the most.
- mgraczyk 1y ago
  Uber basically didn't exist 10 years ago and was insanely VC subsidized. Compare cab prices. Drinks in some places are more, other places have not increased as much. You basically couldn't find a $5 drink in SF in 2015. You can still find $2 drinks in Austin today

TheOtherHobbes 1y ago

This would be more convincing if you quoted data. Nothing on FRED suggests you're correct.

mgraczyk 1y ago
Here's men 16-24 showing 20% increase after CPI adjustment https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q
- chongli 1y ago
  The CPI is misleading because it does silly things such as counting increases in CPU speed as “getting more computing for your money.” If all you use your computer for is word processing then you’re really not getting 1000x “more computing” for your money today than you were in the 1980s, you’re getting only minor increases in productivity.
  - nradov 1y ago
    If all you use your computer for is word processing then you can buy a low-end desktop for very little money. Computers (and other consumer electronics) are cheaper now than they have ever been. Uninformed whining about hedonic adjustments in CPI is so tiresome.
    - chongli 1y ago
      How many average home computer users are 1000X more productive with a computer today than they were with a 1980s computer? The CPI is the consumer price index. It doesn’t cover business uses of computers which take more advantage of the improved performance.
      - nradov 1y ago
        The CPI doesn't measure productivity so I have no idea what point you think you're making.
        chongli 1y ago
        No it measures CPU speed, memory, etc under the assumption that scaling these provide some kind of tangible benefit to warrant the idea that we’re getting “more computer for less money” but these benefits are clearly nowhere even close to a linear relationship with CPU speed. Productivity was an example of a benefit I chose off the cuff but you could choose others. Are today’s video game consoles 1000X more fun than a NES? Given that many people actually prefer old NES games and are even willing to pay inflated prices to collect them suggests the answer is a resounding no.
        nradov 1y ago
        You are getting more computer for your money. And only a tiny niche of collectors are foolish enough to waste a lot of money on old video games. You can find the same hobbyist collectors for anything: figurines, model trains, coins, etc. Collectors are economically meaningless.
        chongli 1y ago
        The question is not: "are you getting more computer for your money?" The question is: "are you getting (anywhere near) a linear scaling of computer for your money?" Because to me the answer to the second question is a resounding "no" and the strongest evidence of that is all the people walking around with high-end iPhones who can barely afford rent on tiny single-bedroom apartments.

HaZeust 1y ago

>"First, young people make a lot more than they did 10 years ago (both nominally and inflation adjusted)." I need a source on this, like [1], and I need you to also share the cost-of-living average increases, which PLAINLY show that despite wages increasing, the increasing costs for goods and services within that same time period have outpaced wage increase percentages [2][3]. And don't be a typical HN-crowder and say ANYTHING about wages in our industries — it's white-collar work, and a functioning society sees to accomplishing an ever-progressing standard of living for members in ALL sectors of the status-quo 'bell curve'. Shit, even average household income is down 2k from 6 years ago [4] 1 - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU0500000003 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CEU0500000003 2 - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA 3 - https://www.kff.org/health-costs/press-release/annual-family-premiums-for-employer-coverage-rise-7-to-average-25572-in-2024-benchmark-survey-finds-after-also-rising-7-last-year/ https://www.kff.org/health-costs/press-release/annual-family... 4 - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

mgraczyk 1y ago
Any source will do, here is the Atlanta fed https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker Click "age" Then compare to price levels. Wages have outpaced price levels for this age group significantly Here's men 16-24 showing 20% increase after CPI adjustment https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q EDIT: the data you shared is not specific to "young people", that's why it's different. While everyone's wages are up over the last 10 years relative to prices (according to the data you shared), young people have gained much more
- HaZeust 1y ago
  Rent, household items, cost of external activities, and health insurance (sometimes, see parents' insurance plans) are still subject to that group - which my sources show clear outpacing for - even with youth's increase in wages. For someone that lives with their parents and works full time, yeah - they've probably never had it better. But a lot of youth right now have expenses drawn out in such a way where, even if they're making more than their predecessors, they have less upwards mobility for today, let alone any potential to invest in assets that afford them any upwards mobility in the future.

kjkjadksj 1y ago

Drinks are like $15-20 now. 15 years ago I was getting double wells for like $2-5. Bars had actual legit specials too like dollar beers. Uber 10 years ago would be like $7 at the most.

mgraczyk 1y ago
Uber basically didn't exist 10 years ago and was insanely VC subsidized. Compare cab prices. Drinks in some places are more, other places have not increased as much. You basically couldn't find a $5 drink in SF in 2015. You can still find $2 drinks in Austin today