4 ms·

My wife's a podiatrist. I can conjure what I've heard her tell a thousand people over the years: invest in arch supports. Shoot for the ones that run about $50

My wife's a podiatrist. I can conjure what I've heard her tell a thousand people over the years: invest in arch supports. Shoot for the ones that run about $50 and are rigid. Don't start with the $500 custom ones, and skip the $10 soft ones you see at the pharmacy. Go to REI or a running shop or a sporting goods store and get those instead. My knees freaking killed me when I was running. I started using the supports my wife bought for me and it instantly improved, and far beyond any placebo effect. Before: my knees ached after I ran 100% of the time. Now: they never ache anymore.

AtlasBarfed 1y ago
AND YOU DON'T NEED TO RUN to start with. And if you are overweight and sedentary DON'T RUN TO GET INTO SHAPE. Walking, hiking, swimming, biking, and weight training. Mix all of it so you get cross training effects and distribute stress across many domains. Running is, by the standards of the statistical hole America is in terms of obesity, an "advanced" activity. We're talking about something that involves a stress increase of 2.5x to 4.x over walking. Now consider that an obese person with an extra 50 lbs of fat is on their body. Running will be an extra 200 lbs of stress on your feet, and none of that fat tissue is absorbing impact or stabilizing that impact. And on top of it, the fat will disrupt the neuro-biomechanical flow of your neuromuscular system, making you less coordinated and therefore also harder to absorb the impact. As I said elsewhere: use GLP-1 to get the fat down and simultaneously employ a gentle ROUTINE activity program that morphs into more and more exercise and exercise variety.
- lemonberry 1y ago
  "And if you are overweight and sedentary DON'T RUN TO GET INTO SHAPE." This. Many people aren't in good enough shape to run. And if they do run their form is often terrible. There was a website years ago at WasWayFat.com about a guy that lost a ton of weight just stepping on an aerobic stair in his home. Wayback machine has it: https://web.archive.org/web/20170710225625/http://www.waswayfat.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170710225625/http://www.wasway...
- terribleperson 1y ago
  It can be really hard to get cardio without running. I still agree despite that.
  - AtlasBarfed 1y ago
    It is, it is so low-cost (running shoes) and available (walk out the door). And doing it is close to the maximum calories you will burn per unit of effort and time.
  - lowestprimate 1y ago
    Rucking will get you your cardio
    - terribleperson 1y ago
      Isn't this similarly hard on your joints to running, though, which is part of the problem with running when you're overweight? Or am I overestimating the joint impact?
  - throwaway22032 1y ago
    If you are overweight enough that running carries a significant risk of joint issues then just walking at speed is likely to be enough cardio for you.
- FabHK 1y ago
  Peter Attia in his book "Outlive" recommends exclusively zone 2 training for sedentary beginners: half an hour, 3x a week, of light to moderate exercise (e.g. on a stationary bike), for half a year or so before more strenuous exercise is added.
- thebigspacefuck 1y ago
  My feet seemed to get better after I started running. First time without pain in some time. Even walking made them hurt before. It’s taken a few months to build up though. BMI of 29 starting so not obese but overweight and running has me down at 27 now.
ak217 1y ago
Better yet, get stability/motion control shoes. Don't skimp on running shoes and be prepared to try a few different types for extended periods of time before you settle on one. I found that there is only one type of shoe on the market that prevents me from getting injured (Asics Gel-Kayano). Everything else - low drop, high drop, HOKA, Brooks, Nike, even Asics' own GT-2000s - is a quick route to knee injury for me. And I don't need arch supports when using the Kayanos, even though I am a very clear overpronator.
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Absolutely. And what works best is incredibly personal. My wife tends to run in Nikes because others don’t fit and move just right for her. Meanwhile, I’ve never found a pair of Nikes I could stand, but Brooks Adrenaline give me superpowers. Don’t ever get what someone else likes instead of what you prefer. Your feet aren’t theirs.
- thebigspacefuck 1y ago
  Motion control were found to cause higher injury rates than either neutral/stability in this study https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/45/9/715 https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/45/9/715 Matches my own experience, first season of cross country in HS I had neutral shoes and they were perfect, went back for new shoes next season and they put me in motion control shoes which gave me instant knee pain.
  - ak217 1y ago
    OK, here is a study with 10x the sample size reading out the opposite effect: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26746907/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26746907/ The point of my post was that these experiences are highly personal and specific to your physiology. Different shoe models labeled the same type can have drastically different dynamics depending on their design and the specifics of your gait and strike. If you have pain or injuries, don't trust the studies, try different shoes and cross-training/stretching techniques until you find what works for you.
thefaux 1y ago
Counterpoint: I am personally skeptical about the long term value of arch supports. The reason is that while they can undoubtably help with short term pain, they also inhibit strength development and introduce an unnecessary dependency (kind of like a software library). I am not disagreeing with your experience or discouraging people from using supports to deal with injuries. I am just questioning making yourself reliant upon them. About 20 years ago, I was riding my bike everywhere and hardly walking. I went on a trip to NYC and was walking 10+ miles a day. I developed severe shooting pains in my feet. Getting some supports helped dramatically and so I started wearing them whenever I wore shoes. I did this for about 15 years and completely swore by arch supporting shoes. Then, one day I was playing basketball and landed on someone's foot going for a layup. My foot basically folded in half in the opposite direction of the arch. This was a major injury and I could not walk at all for a week and it took multiple years before I stopped feeling pain regularly in that foot. After the injury, I completely stopped wearing arch supports. I had a theory that my feet had been weakened by using them and that this weakness was the underlying reason for the severity of my injury. For the last few years, I have averaged about eight miles of walking a day and mostly wear zero drop minimal shoes. I have developed the ability to run on concrete with them, though I do not particularly enjoy this (primarily because my running efficiency is poor). If I were running a marathon, I would certainly wear shoes with padding, but I don't find much padding or support necessary or even desirable for brisk walking for hours at a time. And for almost 15 years, I never left the house without bulky supports.
- rsync 1y ago
  I believe you are correct and I believe that what you are expressing can be generalized - and distilled - as the following: Bracing a body part weakens that body part in the long run. Anybody who has ever had a cast on their arm knows this firsthand.
  - dumbmrblah 1y ago
    Yep. I walk barefoot everywhere I can and if not, then I wear sandals. I was having terrible pain in my feet when I was wearing “shoes with support”, which went away once I started wearing sandals and going barefoot everywhere. If I run I run with glove shoes or whatever they’re called nowadays.
UncleOxidant 1y ago
What the brand of arch support are you using?
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Sole Supports work for me, but it’s different for everyone.

AtlasBarfed 1y ago

AND YOU DON'T NEED TO RUN to start with. And if you are overweight and sedentary DON'T RUN TO GET INTO SHAPE. Walking, hiking, swimming, biking, and weight training. Mix all of it so you get cross training effects and distribute stress across many domains. Running is, by the standards of the statistical hole America is in terms of obesity, an "advanced" activity. We're talking about something that involves a stress increase of 2.5x to 4.x over walking. Now consider that an obese person with an extra 50 lbs of fat is on their body. Running will be an extra 200 lbs of stress on your feet, and none of that fat tissue is absorbing impact or stabilizing that impact. And on top of it, the fat will disrupt the neuro-biomechanical flow of your neuromuscular system, making you less coordinated and therefore also harder to absorb the impact. As I said elsewhere: use GLP-1 to get the fat down and simultaneously employ a gentle ROUTINE activity program that morphs into more and more exercise and exercise variety.

lemonberry 1y ago
"And if you are overweight and sedentary DON'T RUN TO GET INTO SHAPE." This. Many people aren't in good enough shape to run. And if they do run their form is often terrible. There was a website years ago at WasWayFat.com about a guy that lost a ton of weight just stepping on an aerobic stair in his home. Wayback machine has it: https://web.archive.org/web/20170710225625/http://www.waswayfat.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170710225625/http://www.wasway...
terribleperson 1y ago
It can be really hard to get cardio without running. I still agree despite that.
- AtlasBarfed 1y ago
  It is, it is so low-cost (running shoes) and available (walk out the door). And doing it is close to the maximum calories you will burn per unit of effort and time.
- lowestprimate 1y ago
  Rucking will get you your cardio
  - terribleperson 1y ago
    Isn't this similarly hard on your joints to running, though, which is part of the problem with running when you're overweight? Or am I overestimating the joint impact?
- throwaway22032 1y ago
  If you are overweight enough that running carries a significant risk of joint issues then just walking at speed is likely to be enough cardio for you.
FabHK 1y ago
Peter Attia in his book "Outlive" recommends exclusively zone 2 training for sedentary beginners: half an hour, 3x a week, of light to moderate exercise (e.g. on a stationary bike), for half a year or so before more strenuous exercise is added.
thebigspacefuck 1y ago
My feet seemed to get better after I started running. First time without pain in some time. Even walking made them hurt before. It’s taken a few months to build up though. BMI of 29 starting so not obese but overweight and running has me down at 27 now.

ak217 1y ago

Better yet, get stability/motion control shoes. Don't skimp on running shoes and be prepared to try a few different types for extended periods of time before you settle on one. I found that there is only one type of shoe on the market that prevents me from getting injured (Asics Gel-Kayano). Everything else - low drop, high drop, HOKA, Brooks, Nike, even Asics' own GT-2000s - is a quick route to knee injury for me. And I don't need arch supports when using the Kayanos, even though I am a very clear overpronator.

kstrauser 1y ago
Absolutely. And what works best is incredibly personal. My wife tends to run in Nikes because others don’t fit and move just right for her. Meanwhile, I’ve never found a pair of Nikes I could stand, but Brooks Adrenaline give me superpowers. Don’t ever get what someone else likes instead of what you prefer. Your feet aren’t theirs.
thebigspacefuck 1y ago
Motion control were found to cause higher injury rates than either neutral/stability in this study https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/45/9/715 https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/45/9/715 Matches my own experience, first season of cross country in HS I had neutral shoes and they were perfect, went back for new shoes next season and they put me in motion control shoes which gave me instant knee pain.
- ak217 1y ago
  OK, here is a study with 10x the sample size reading out the opposite effect: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26746907/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26746907/ The point of my post was that these experiences are highly personal and specific to your physiology. Different shoe models labeled the same type can have drastically different dynamics depending on their design and the specifics of your gait and strike. If you have pain or injuries, don't trust the studies, try different shoes and cross-training/stretching techniques until you find what works for you.

thefaux 1y ago

Counterpoint: I am personally skeptical about the long term value of arch supports. The reason is that while they can undoubtably help with short term pain, they also inhibit strength development and introduce an unnecessary dependency (kind of like a software library). I am not disagreeing with your experience or discouraging people from using supports to deal with injuries. I am just questioning making yourself reliant upon them. About 20 years ago, I was riding my bike everywhere and hardly walking. I went on a trip to NYC and was walking 10+ miles a day. I developed severe shooting pains in my feet. Getting some supports helped dramatically and so I started wearing them whenever I wore shoes. I did this for about 15 years and completely swore by arch supporting shoes. Then, one day I was playing basketball and landed on someone's foot going for a layup. My foot basically folded in half in the opposite direction of the arch. This was a major injury and I could not walk at all for a week and it took multiple years before I stopped feeling pain regularly in that foot. After the injury, I completely stopped wearing arch supports. I had a theory that my feet had been weakened by using them and that this weakness was the underlying reason for the severity of my injury. For the last few years, I have averaged about eight miles of walking a day and mostly wear zero drop minimal shoes. I have developed the ability to run on concrete with them, though I do not particularly enjoy this (primarily because my running efficiency is poor). If I were running a marathon, I would certainly wear shoes with padding, but I don't find much padding or support necessary or even desirable for brisk walking for hours at a time. And for almost 15 years, I never left the house without bulky supports.

rsync 1y ago
I believe you are correct and I believe that what you are expressing can be generalized - and distilled - as the following: Bracing a body part weakens that body part in the long run. Anybody who has ever had a cast on their arm knows this firsthand.
- dumbmrblah 1y ago
  Yep. I walk barefoot everywhere I can and if not, then I wear sandals. I was having terrible pain in my feet when I was wearing “shoes with support”, which went away once I started wearing sandals and going barefoot everywhere. If I run I run with glove shoes or whatever they’re called nowadays.

UncleOxidant 1y ago

What the brand of arch support are you using?

kstrauser 1y ago
Sole Supports work for me, but it’s different for everyone.