6 ms·

There’s also doomscrolling. I genuinely think a large portion of Gen Z would rather stay in bed watching Instagram reels than go out to a bar or club. I’ve bee

by cedws 1y ago

There’s also doomscrolling. I genuinely think a large portion of Gen Z would rather stay in bed watching Instagram reels than go out to a bar or club. I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive but I’m not sure on what magnitude.

redserk 1y ago
I think it is worth calling out how expensive it can be to go out and do things now though. $10-12 beers and $15 cocktails gets expensive over a few weekends.
- WHA8m 1y ago
  Sure, but kids don't drink as much these days anyways anymore. At least in Germany, and we have drinking at 16 year old. I'm not at the age, but I wouldn't know an alternative to hang out at weekends. I mean, I do, but I can't think of a popular alternative. In my teen years people already haven't had any hobbies. With social media this surely has gotten worse.
  - andrepd 1y ago
    It would be nice if there were more non-commercial activities/spaces available... which there are fewer and fewer.
    - Krasnol 1y ago
      It is a pest upon humankind that this system needs to monetize everything humans want or need.
      - WHA8m 1y ago
        Same here: I agree. On the other hand, it's a pest upon humankind that we can't leave public spaces clean and respect public property. We need money to pay people to make nice things, because apparently there is no critical mass that cares about the community. It's always individuals that burden it on their shoulders. And that's obviously not sufficient. Solution: money. Yeah, I hate it too.
        Krasnol 1y ago
        Both hang together. We've been educated for selfishness.
        WHA8m 1y ago
        I see that they come as a bundle. But I am not so sure about "educated". You yourself hinted that it's inherent to humankind. People have been "educated" in several different ways all across the globe and I wouldn't know where to look to see a difference.
        Krasnol 1y ago
        You need to be greedy and selfish to be really successful in this system and being successful in our system begins in school and ends at your workplace where it spoken out loudly and clearly for you to learn. If you are successful, you can buy more things for yourself. Maybe even a few things others not only, don't have, things they might not be able to get at all because they're unique. You don't even have to do anything with those things. Just put them in storage and let them generate you even more money so you can buy even more things. As someone who grew up under Socialism, this system we have here in the West is a paradise and hell in one.
        ryandrake 1y ago
        > On the other hand, it's a pest upon humankind that we can't leave public spaces clean and respect public property. Toxic individualism and an intolerance towards collective ownership is killing community. We should not blame humankind on a problem easily solvable by hiring a few people to clean and fix things. Somehow, this (the public bearing any cost whatsoever to have and maintain high quality public property) has become unacceptable to the public!
        Krasnol 1y ago
        It didn't become unacceptable. The general public does pay already. What becomes more and more unacceptable is the way those who already have a lot avoid to participate in this collective maintenance. Besides that, there are things you can't solve with money. Sure you can sand "a few people" to clean up a place but the fact that people didn't use the trash bins (if the community was able to afford some) won't go away. It will create more and more costs while the collective money to patch over this will get less and less. There will be a point when it snaps and some will be surprised it did because their bubble was kept clean all the time. They paid extra for it and your kids are not allowed on the loan.
    - WHA8m 1y ago
      I agree. On the other hand, I don't want to give away all the responsibility. There is plenty of space for doing sports or going in nature. Art is pretty affordable in cities. Public transportation is pretty cheap (at least for the youth and in Europe). But still, I agree.
- fragmede 1y ago
  Buying the cheapest shittiest liquor and pregaming at someone's house before going out wasn't invented by GenX and I'm sure Gen Alpha can figure out how to do that for themselves.
AlecSchueler 1y ago
> I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive The obsession with their birth rates is one of the creepy reasons why young people don't want to go out.
- furyofantares 1y ago
  > The obsession with their birth rates is one of the creepy reasons why young people don't want to go out. I'm a bit confused here, as someone who doesn't go out and never did. Do young people get accosted about generational birth rates if they go out?
  - nathan_compton 1y ago
    I think public discussion of whether you are having "enough" sex and "enough" babies to satisfy some oligarch or technocrat's vision of how the world should be, while not specifically deterring people going out, contributes to a general gross vibe which I could imagine doesn't help people want to get out there and mingle. But I do think this is overstated. I have a small number of children and the main reason that we don't have more is that its incredibly expensive over the course of a lifetime to raise a child who isn't going to be some wage slave somewhere or worse, end up in poverty and treated like shit by the world. If our society was genuinely dedicated to allowing a slower pace of life and ensuring the unconditional dignity of human beings, we'd probably have more kids, but having more now feels like pitching them into the meat grinder.
    - billy99k 1y ago
      The main discussion is on replacement rates. If this get too low, civilization eventually collapses. It's not really a 'vision' and more like the end of humanity.
      - slt2021 1y ago
        no, it doesn't. With the labor productivity and automation, it is not obvious we need to maintain the current population, especially because the current social contract seems to be working class being exploited by oligarchs, while their taxes go fund boomers' retirement and overseas wars
api 1y ago
Doomscrolling is very different from web surfing. The mind is far less engaged. It’s a hypnotic state, deeply addictive and soporific. Contrarian take (not saying I believe this) but what if AI companions actually engage the mind more? Is there some positive path available here?
- rm_-rf_slash 1y ago
  I’m not sure it’s one or the other. Firing off a prompt to Claude Code and letting it rip can be great for productivity but I won’t pretend I’m reading every line it writes unless I have to. And yet if I’m inquiring into a subject matter I have scant knowledge about, and want to learn more about, I voraciously read the output and plan my next prompt thoughtfully throughout. The dividing line is intellectual curiosity. AI can stimulate the mind in ways people may not have thought possible, like explaining subjects they never grasped previously, but the user has to want to go down that path to achieve it. Social media doomscrolling, by contrast, is designed to anesthetize, so the result should not surprise.
  - api 1y ago
    To me AI feels like the early web. I can get information without sifting through heaps of SEO trash, and it’s like having this weird magic thinking mirror to explore ideas. Unlike social media it’s not a sea of culture war rage trolling and slop. I am not trying to use it as a companion though. Not only do I have human ones but it feels super weird and creepy to try. I couldn’t suspend disbelief since I know how these things work.
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      > To me AI feels like the early web To me AI feels like the final nail in the web's coffin There is nothing remotely charming about it like the early web had
watwut 1y ago
I mean, even in my younger years going to a bar or club was not an everyday activity. People watched TV most of the evenings. Or read junk books, which was popular before TV came along. > I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive but I’m not sure on what magnitude. People can and do use anticonception. They do not have kids just randomly out of bored stranger encounter anymore.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  Agree. TV fucked us up. The internet has only piled on.
lotsofpulp 1y ago
>I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive but I’m not sure on what magnitude. Sex is decoupled from birth rates, due to access to 100% effective birth control (IUD/morning after pill/abortion). Hence there is no reason to think it would have any positive effect. I would be surprised if even a single person I know had had an unplanned kid.
- nathan_compton 1y ago
  > due to access to 100% effective birth control This doesn't really track. People still get pregnant accidentally all the time. And people also still decide to have babies on purpose if they meet someone they like. Social media may be screwing up the latter process somewhat and getting rid of it could improve birth rates. Birth Control isn't the whole problem. I would argue its not part of the problem at all - if people are choosing to not have kids, you don't have a birth control problem, you have a society problem. Unless you just think more human agency is bad? Seems like a weird take to me.
  - lotsofpulp 1y ago
    Upon second read, I may have misinterpreted the comment. I assumed cedws meant birth rate increasing from one night stands due to going out to bars or clubs, but they may have meant increased chances of forming relationships. But that didn’t occur to me, since as far as I know, pretty much all relationships don’t happen like that anymore, and are usually planned prior to going out using dating apps or other personal networks. In which case, it’s not just instagram reels that would have to be gotten rid of, but also matchmaking services.
- gitremote 1y ago
  > Sex is decoupled from birth rates, due to access to 100% effective birth control (IUD/morning after pill/abortion). In 2022, the US overturned the constitutional right to abortion. Abortion is now outlawed in 17 US states, restricted in 8. Politicians in some of these states are also trying to ban IUDs and the morning after pill.
anton-c 1y ago
Not gen z but I just don't drink(i worked in clubs and didnt like that scene either). I think there's a growing portion of gen z that is like that if I recall what I've read correctly. They drink less. I genuinely don't know what to do in my smaller suburb where the verbs aren't "look" "eat" or "drink". I wanna do. Museums are mostly boring to me, there's little interaction. I don't meet people at the library or gym. The volunteer things ive done had a weird gap where younger people and older people have more free time than middle aged workers and parents so I had few peers at those too. I'm open to any and all ideas. Feels like things never truly changed back after covid as far as community events and social opportunities.
- svachalek 1y ago
  Sports and games. Really depends on what you're into but there's lots of different levels of interaction, physical activity, mental work, competition, etc. Just need to find your people.
pantalaimon 1y ago
FOGO (fear of going out) is a thing
squigz 1y ago
Between "going out to get drunk" and "browsing Instagram" I would rather have our kids doing the latter.

by cedws 1y ago

redserk 1y ago

I think it is worth calling out how expensive it can be to go out and do things now though. $10-12 beers and $15 cocktails gets expensive over a few weekends.

WHA8m 1y ago
Sure, but kids don't drink as much these days anyways anymore. At least in Germany, and we have drinking at 16 year old. I'm not at the age, but I wouldn't know an alternative to hang out at weekends. I mean, I do, but I can't think of a popular alternative. In my teen years people already haven't had any hobbies. With social media this surely has gotten worse.
- andrepd 1y ago
  It would be nice if there were more non-commercial activities/spaces available... which there are fewer and fewer.
  - Krasnol 1y ago
    It is a pest upon humankind that this system needs to monetize everything humans want or need.
    - WHA8m 1y ago
      Same here: I agree. On the other hand, it's a pest upon humankind that we can't leave public spaces clean and respect public property. We need money to pay people to make nice things, because apparently there is no critical mass that cares about the community. It's always individuals that burden it on their shoulders. And that's obviously not sufficient. Solution: money. Yeah, I hate it too.
      - Krasnol 1y ago
        Both hang together. We've been educated for selfishness.
        WHA8m 1y ago
        I see that they come as a bundle. But I am not so sure about "educated". You yourself hinted that it's inherent to humankind. People have been "educated" in several different ways all across the globe and I wouldn't know where to look to see a difference.
        Krasnol 1y ago
        You need to be greedy and selfish to be really successful in this system and being successful in our system begins in school and ends at your workplace where it spoken out loudly and clearly for you to learn. If you are successful, you can buy more things for yourself. Maybe even a few things others not only, don't have, things they might not be able to get at all because they're unique. You don't even have to do anything with those things. Just put them in storage and let them generate you even more money so you can buy even more things. As someone who grew up under Socialism, this system we have here in the West is a paradise and hell in one.
      - ryandrake 1y ago
        > On the other hand, it's a pest upon humankind that we can't leave public spaces clean and respect public property. Toxic individualism and an intolerance towards collective ownership is killing community. We should not blame humankind on a problem easily solvable by hiring a few people to clean and fix things. Somehow, this (the public bearing any cost whatsoever to have and maintain high quality public property) has become unacceptable to the public!
        Krasnol 1y ago
        It didn't become unacceptable. The general public does pay already. What becomes more and more unacceptable is the way those who already have a lot avoid to participate in this collective maintenance. Besides that, there are things you can't solve with money. Sure you can sand "a few people" to clean up a place but the fact that people didn't use the trash bins (if the community was able to afford some) won't go away. It will create more and more costs while the collective money to patch over this will get less and less. There will be a point when it snaps and some will be surprised it did because their bubble was kept clean all the time. They paid extra for it and your kids are not allowed on the loan.
  - WHA8m 1y ago
    I agree. On the other hand, I don't want to give away all the responsibility. There is plenty of space for doing sports or going in nature. Art is pretty affordable in cities. Public transportation is pretty cheap (at least for the youth and in Europe). But still, I agree.
fragmede 1y ago
Buying the cheapest shittiest liquor and pregaming at someone's house before going out wasn't invented by GenX and I'm sure Gen Alpha can figure out how to do that for themselves.

AlecSchueler 1y ago

> I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive The obsession with their birth rates is one of the creepy reasons why young people don't want to go out.

furyofantares 1y ago
> The obsession with their birth rates is one of the creepy reasons why young people don't want to go out. I'm a bit confused here, as someone who doesn't go out and never did. Do young people get accosted about generational birth rates if they go out?
- nathan_compton 1y ago
  I think public discussion of whether you are having "enough" sex and "enough" babies to satisfy some oligarch or technocrat's vision of how the world should be, while not specifically deterring people going out, contributes to a general gross vibe which I could imagine doesn't help people want to get out there and mingle. But I do think this is overstated. I have a small number of children and the main reason that we don't have more is that its incredibly expensive over the course of a lifetime to raise a child who isn't going to be some wage slave somewhere or worse, end up in poverty and treated like shit by the world. If our society was genuinely dedicated to allowing a slower pace of life and ensuring the unconditional dignity of human beings, we'd probably have more kids, but having more now feels like pitching them into the meat grinder.
  - billy99k 1y ago
    The main discussion is on replacement rates. If this get too low, civilization eventually collapses. It's not really a 'vision' and more like the end of humanity.
    - slt2021 1y ago
      no, it doesn't. With the labor productivity and automation, it is not obvious we need to maintain the current population, especially because the current social contract seems to be working class being exploited by oligarchs, while their taxes go fund boomers' retirement and overseas wars

api 1y ago

Doomscrolling is very different from web surfing. The mind is far less engaged. It’s a hypnotic state, deeply addictive and soporific. Contrarian take (not saying I believe this) but what if AI companions actually engage the mind more? Is there some positive path available here?

rm_-rf_slash 1y ago
I’m not sure it’s one or the other. Firing off a prompt to Claude Code and letting it rip can be great for productivity but I won’t pretend I’m reading every line it writes unless I have to. And yet if I’m inquiring into a subject matter I have scant knowledge about, and want to learn more about, I voraciously read the output and plan my next prompt thoughtfully throughout. The dividing line is intellectual curiosity. AI can stimulate the mind in ways people may not have thought possible, like explaining subjects they never grasped previously, but the user has to want to go down that path to achieve it. Social media doomscrolling, by contrast, is designed to anesthetize, so the result should not surprise.
- api 1y ago
  To me AI feels like the early web. I can get information without sifting through heaps of SEO trash, and it’s like having this weird magic thinking mirror to explore ideas. Unlike social media it’s not a sea of culture war rage trolling and slop. I am not trying to use it as a companion though. Not only do I have human ones but it feels super weird and creepy to try. I couldn’t suspend disbelief since I know how these things work.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    > To me AI feels like the early web To me AI feels like the final nail in the web's coffin There is nothing remotely charming about it like the early web had

watwut 1y ago

I mean, even in my younger years going to a bar or club was not an everyday activity. People watched TV most of the evenings. Or read junk books, which was popular before TV came along. > I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive but I’m not sure on what magnitude. People can and do use anticonception. They do not have kids just randomly out of bored stranger encounter anymore.

JKCalhoun 1y ago
Agree. TV fucked us up. The internet has only piled on.

lotsofpulp 1y ago

>I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive but I’m not sure on what magnitude. Sex is decoupled from birth rates, due to access to 100% effective birth control (IUD/morning after pill/abortion). Hence there is no reason to think it would have any positive effect. I would be surprised if even a single person I know had had an unplanned kid.

nathan_compton 1y ago
> due to access to 100% effective birth control This doesn't really track. People still get pregnant accidentally all the time. And people also still decide to have babies on purpose if they meet someone they like. Social media may be screwing up the latter process somewhat and getting rid of it could improve birth rates. Birth Control isn't the whole problem. I would argue its not part of the problem at all - if people are choosing to not have kids, you don't have a birth control problem, you have a society problem. Unless you just think more human agency is bad? Seems like a weird take to me.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  Upon second read, I may have misinterpreted the comment. I assumed cedws meant birth rate increasing from one night stands due to going out to bars or clubs, but they may have meant increased chances of forming relationships. But that didn’t occur to me, since as far as I know, pretty much all relationships don’t happen like that anymore, and are usually planned prior to going out using dating apps or other personal networks. In which case, it’s not just instagram reels that would have to be gotten rid of, but also matchmaking services.
gitremote 1y ago
> Sex is decoupled from birth rates, due to access to 100% effective birth control (IUD/morning after pill/abortion). In 2022, the US overturned the constitutional right to abortion. Abortion is now outlawed in 17 US states, restricted in 8. Politicians in some of these states are also trying to ban IUDs and the morning after pill.

anton-c 1y ago

Not gen z but I just don't drink(i worked in clubs and didnt like that scene either). I think there's a growing portion of gen z that is like that if I recall what I've read correctly. They drink less. I genuinely don't know what to do in my smaller suburb where the verbs aren't "look" "eat" or "drink". I wanna do. Museums are mostly boring to me, there's little interaction. I don't meet people at the library or gym. The volunteer things ive done had a weird gap where younger people and older people have more free time than middle aged workers and parents so I had few peers at those too. I'm open to any and all ideas. Feels like things never truly changed back after covid as far as community events and social opportunities.

svachalek 1y ago
Sports and games. Really depends on what you're into but there's lots of different levels of interaction, physical activity, mental work, competition, etc. Just need to find your people.

pantalaimon 1y ago

FOGO (fear of going out) is a thing

squigz 1y ago

Between "going out to get drunk" and "browsing Instagram" I would rather have our kids doing the latter.