3 ms·

Car travel is such a weird thing. The other day I was walking on the driver side of a wide street where cars were passing me by very fast. Most of us are usuall

by ivape 1y ago

Car travel is such a weird thing. The other day I was walking on the driver side of a wide street where cars were passing me by very fast. Most of us are usually an arms length away from passing cars when we do that, roughly an arms length away from being hit at 20+ mph, yet humans do this careful beam walking without flinching. It’s the American version of Indians riding the roof of a train. If you goto a third world country, they are even more acclimated to insanely dangerous traffic conditions (no traffic laws being followed, cars flying out from every angle). The whole thing is insanity yet everyone is just going along with it. A life built around car commutes is the outcome of a poorly thought out society. It had such stupid repercussions like racial segregation and the absurdity that everyone gets their own house along with the vertical airspace on top of it (exceedingly selfish). Along with that, it’s dangerous as fuck. Someone needs to suggest dropping the speed limit across the board in America. Unfortunately the MAGA people will straight boycott roads if we do that (unfortunately?). Most people I talk to in Texas will concede the highways are full of maniacs.

earthnail 1y ago
And yet it works surprisingly well. When I lived in London, people waiting for the tube were leas than an arm’s length away when it rushed in. Blew my mind. Eventually I got used to it and did the same.
- lblume 1y ago
  The difference is that the tube driver (assuming there even is one) can't just decide to take a slight turn from the planned route, while the car driver really might.
  - wouldbecouldbe 1y ago
    Yet of all the traffic accidents, the one you describe never happens. So it’s not much difference
    - ehnto 1y ago
      Sorry if I misunderstand but you don't think cars come off the road and impact pedestrians? Happens for a myriad of reasons, but it does happen.
    - Xylakant 1y ago
      It happens all of the time. Cars veering off the road and maiming pedestrians is a fairly common occurrence. Sorry to cite German sources, but google translate should help you out August 2024: 8 Year old “caught by a car on the pavement” https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/ulm/kind-bei-unfall-getoetet-unfallstelle-trauer-teddy-blaustein-100.html https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/ulm/kind-be... October 2024: A Mother and two children killed by an SUV that “veered off the road” https://www.merkur.de/deutschland/baden-wuerttemberg/erfasst-fussgaenger-gehweg-mutter-zwei-kinder-sterben-esslingen-baden-wuerttemberg-polizei-auto-zr-93370412.html https://www.merkur.de/deutschland/baden-wuerttemberg/erfasst... May 2025: 2 Children injured, on their way home from school https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/20-meter-von-schule-entfernt-junge-und-maedchen-9-auf-heimweg-von-auto-angefahren-und-schwer-verletzt_8ffca82e-2f8e-4208-9632-dfd5b1290f48.html https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/20-meter-von-schule-entfe... July 2025: 2 pedestrians injured https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/starnberg/starnberg-auto-fussgaenger-gehweg-li.3279650 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/starnberg/starnberg-aut...
    - baubino 1y ago
      It does happen, it happened to me — a driver was distracted (because they were texting while driving) and they veered from the traffic flow and I was hit at 40 mph. The EMS worker who responded to the scene told me two things: 1. They almost never pull people alive from this kind of accident, 2. This kind of head-on, no brakes, distracted driver accident was happening more and more. This was 10 years ago.
- jcurtis 1y ago
  The tube follows fixed tracks, which is quite different from cars on a road.
  - ivape 1y ago
    Yeah but look at how normalized it is. All you need to do is slightly misstep, out of the thousands of steps you take, to bump your head on a passing train. You think it’s not possible (part of the trance) but all the parameters are set up so that the slot machine eventually hits the jackpot. You’re 12 inches away from a projectile, and you are to repeat the loop daily for a lifetime. The odds are the odds.
  - ehnto 1y ago
    This is why you can run trams in pedestrian only areas and have very few impacts. Trained professional driving it, predictable speed and direction.
mantas 1y ago
Such is life in dense cities where workplaces are concentrated. And pace of life requires humans to take shorter path which is safe enough. At least it’s much safer than in the era of the horses. And sanitary conditions are much better.
- lblume 1y ago
  Density is fundamentally incompatible with car-friendly cities and a large amount of road. In general, the denser a city becomes, the more people will go by foot, cycle, or use public transport, especially in Europe.
  - ehnto 1y ago
    Roads take up an enormous amount of space, as does parking. We could capture significant real estate opportunities back from roads in cities that have multi-lane roads going through the CBD (mine has like a dozen criss crossing it). It wouldn't be an overnight thing, but close off a block of road, rezone it and sell it off, you'll get a bunch of new high density buildings that are walkable (since any roads going through will have to be narrow)
    - mantas 1y ago
      And then you get business parks on the outskirts of the city. Because otherwise both employees and visitors complain about parking. Which makes cheaper suburbs more compelling. And some people living downtown driving to workplaces in outskirts of the city. At least that’s what is happening in my whereabouts. I remember when I was kid downtown was prime location for regular shopping and doing daily business. Now all of that moved to big box stores along major traffic arteries. Nowadays downtown is just a tourist trap with super expensive boutiques. I still go there to take a walk once a year or so, but besides that there’s no reason to there anymore for vast majority of people. But suburbs life is flourishing… With shops and services that are needed for every day life. Cheap and good eateries. Even casual entertainment is moving away from the city core. All in all, not sure if it’s good or bad. I couldn’t afford living in downtown even in old era. And now I can live comfy life in suburbs. Not helping much to lower total amount of traffic though.
ehnto 1y ago
Interestingly, removing this illusion of a safe "beam" or division is part of safer road design for mixed traffic areas like city streets. When you remove physical divides between "road" and a "footpath" drivers become more aware that they are dangerous and slow down on their own. Making roads narrower has a similar effect, and removing car parking helps remove that divide and removes the blindspots they create. There are many roads that should either stop pretending to be safe for pedestrians and turn into highways, or lower the speed limit and redesign the layout to suit the mixed traffic nature of the areas. Doesn't have to be extreme just be honest about the real use of the roads. If it's actually mostly pedestrians, suck it up, make it safe, go drive on the other faster roads.
- projektfu 1y ago
  You can also narrow the space between the curbs in which cars can go and achieve the same effect, while keeping pedestrians grade separated from traffic. It would go a long way if we could eliminate spaces where a driver can exceed 50 km/hr (31 MPH) while menacing unprotected users of the street.
jwagenet 1y ago
Merely dropping speed limits doesn’t work. Speed limits not enforced by road design such as road/lane width (real or by parked cars) or other features (bulb outs, neck downs) are speed suggestions.
octo888 1y ago
(tangent) Train travel is such a weird thing. The service, staff, stock, pricing, timetable etc is set by civil servants and politicians 250 miles away. The ticketing system is Byzantine and if you make a mistake you get a fine or a criminal record, unless you look like a thug, in which case the staff rarely bother. Tickets are miraculously priced similar to driving in many instances despite a train looking nothing like a car. In various cases, more expensive than driving You can be late because a politician 200 miles away annoyed the staff so they decide not to turn up. It also turns out services on Sunday ran on good will (overtime), so the annoyed staff who get ok pay rises now realised they don't want the overtime so good luck travelling on a Sunday in quite a few areas. Because of low enforcement of infringements by thugs, they are drawn to the service. You'd think your very high ticket price would include some kind of security? No. Fuck you. When the trains break down you are expected to be OK with being trapped on a train for hours with no open windows or working toilets because of some "greater good" and insufficient emergency response I used to be extremely pro public transport
jb1991 1y ago
One of the things that is particularly strange about traveling to the United States is that you pretty much have no choice but to rent a car or at least have access to a car in some way, unless you’re going to be spending all your time in a place like New York City. But in nearly every other major western destination, certainly throughout much of Europe, it’s never even a thought that you would need to rent a car. I know plenty of grown adults here in Europe they don’t even have a drivers license! It really makes life a lot more convenient when the world does not revolve around an automobile.

by ivape 1y ago

earthnail 1y ago

And yet it works surprisingly well. When I lived in London, people waiting for the tube were leas than an arm’s length away when it rushed in. Blew my mind. Eventually I got used to it and did the same.

lblume 1y ago
The difference is that the tube driver (assuming there even is one) can't just decide to take a slight turn from the planned route, while the car driver really might.
- wouldbecouldbe 1y ago
  Yet of all the traffic accidents, the one you describe never happens. So it’s not much difference
  - ehnto 1y ago
    Sorry if I misunderstand but you don't think cars come off the road and impact pedestrians? Happens for a myriad of reasons, but it does happen.
  - Xylakant 1y ago
    It happens all of the time. Cars veering off the road and maiming pedestrians is a fairly common occurrence. Sorry to cite German sources, but google translate should help you out August 2024: 8 Year old “caught by a car on the pavement” https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/ulm/kind-bei-unfall-getoetet-unfallstelle-trauer-teddy-blaustein-100.html https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/ulm/kind-be... October 2024: A Mother and two children killed by an SUV that “veered off the road” https://www.merkur.de/deutschland/baden-wuerttemberg/erfasst-fussgaenger-gehweg-mutter-zwei-kinder-sterben-esslingen-baden-wuerttemberg-polizei-auto-zr-93370412.html https://www.merkur.de/deutschland/baden-wuerttemberg/erfasst... May 2025: 2 Children injured, on their way home from school https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/20-meter-von-schule-entfernt-junge-und-maedchen-9-auf-heimweg-von-auto-angefahren-und-schwer-verletzt_8ffca82e-2f8e-4208-9632-dfd5b1290f48.html https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/20-meter-von-schule-entfe... July 2025: 2 pedestrians injured https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/starnberg/starnberg-auto-fussgaenger-gehweg-li.3279650 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/starnberg/starnberg-aut...
  - baubino 1y ago
    It does happen, it happened to me — a driver was distracted (because they were texting while driving) and they veered from the traffic flow and I was hit at 40 mph. The EMS worker who responded to the scene told me two things: 1. They almost never pull people alive from this kind of accident, 2. This kind of head-on, no brakes, distracted driver accident was happening more and more. This was 10 years ago.
jcurtis 1y ago
The tube follows fixed tracks, which is quite different from cars on a road.
- ivape 1y ago
  Yeah but look at how normalized it is. All you need to do is slightly misstep, out of the thousands of steps you take, to bump your head on a passing train. You think it’s not possible (part of the trance) but all the parameters are set up so that the slot machine eventually hits the jackpot. You’re 12 inches away from a projectile, and you are to repeat the loop daily for a lifetime. The odds are the odds.
- ehnto 1y ago
  This is why you can run trams in pedestrian only areas and have very few impacts. Trained professional driving it, predictable speed and direction.

mantas 1y ago

Such is life in dense cities where workplaces are concentrated. And pace of life requires humans to take shorter path which is safe enough. At least it’s much safer than in the era of the horses. And sanitary conditions are much better.

lblume 1y ago
Density is fundamentally incompatible with car-friendly cities and a large amount of road. In general, the denser a city becomes, the more people will go by foot, cycle, or use public transport, especially in Europe.
- ehnto 1y ago
  Roads take up an enormous amount of space, as does parking. We could capture significant real estate opportunities back from roads in cities that have multi-lane roads going through the CBD (mine has like a dozen criss crossing it). It wouldn't be an overnight thing, but close off a block of road, rezone it and sell it off, you'll get a bunch of new high density buildings that are walkable (since any roads going through will have to be narrow)
  - mantas 1y ago
    And then you get business parks on the outskirts of the city. Because otherwise both employees and visitors complain about parking. Which makes cheaper suburbs more compelling. And some people living downtown driving to workplaces in outskirts of the city. At least that’s what is happening in my whereabouts. I remember when I was kid downtown was prime location for regular shopping and doing daily business. Now all of that moved to big box stores along major traffic arteries. Nowadays downtown is just a tourist trap with super expensive boutiques. I still go there to take a walk once a year or so, but besides that there’s no reason to there anymore for vast majority of people. But suburbs life is flourishing… With shops and services that are needed for every day life. Cheap and good eateries. Even casual entertainment is moving away from the city core. All in all, not sure if it’s good or bad. I couldn’t afford living in downtown even in old era. And now I can live comfy life in suburbs. Not helping much to lower total amount of traffic though.

ehnto 1y ago

Interestingly, removing this illusion of a safe "beam" or division is part of safer road design for mixed traffic areas like city streets. When you remove physical divides between "road" and a "footpath" drivers become more aware that they are dangerous and slow down on their own. Making roads narrower has a similar effect, and removing car parking helps remove that divide and removes the blindspots they create. There are many roads that should either stop pretending to be safe for pedestrians and turn into highways, or lower the speed limit and redesign the layout to suit the mixed traffic nature of the areas. Doesn't have to be extreme just be honest about the real use of the roads. If it's actually mostly pedestrians, suck it up, make it safe, go drive on the other faster roads.

projektfu 1y ago
You can also narrow the space between the curbs in which cars can go and achieve the same effect, while keeping pedestrians grade separated from traffic. It would go a long way if we could eliminate spaces where a driver can exceed 50 km/hr (31 MPH) while menacing unprotected users of the street.

jwagenet 1y ago

Merely dropping speed limits doesn’t work. Speed limits not enforced by road design such as road/lane width (real or by parked cars) or other features (bulb outs, neck downs) are speed suggestions.

octo888 1y ago

(tangent) Train travel is such a weird thing. The service, staff, stock, pricing, timetable etc is set by civil servants and politicians 250 miles away. The ticketing system is Byzantine and if you make a mistake you get a fine or a criminal record, unless you look like a thug, in which case the staff rarely bother. Tickets are miraculously priced similar to driving in many instances despite a train looking nothing like a car. In various cases, more expensive than driving You can be late because a politician 200 miles away annoyed the staff so they decide not to turn up. It also turns out services on Sunday ran on good will (overtime), so the annoyed staff who get ok pay rises now realised they don't want the overtime so good luck travelling on a Sunday in quite a few areas. Because of low enforcement of infringements by thugs, they are drawn to the service. You'd think your very high ticket price would include some kind of security? No. Fuck you. When the trains break down you are expected to be OK with being trapped on a train for hours with no open windows or working toilets because of some "greater good" and insufficient emergency response I used to be extremely pro public transport

jb1991 1y ago

One of the things that is particularly strange about traveling to the United States is that you pretty much have no choice but to rent a car or at least have access to a car in some way, unless you’re going to be spending all your time in a place like New York City. But in nearly every other major western destination, certainly throughout much of Europe, it’s never even a thought that you would need to rent a car. I know plenty of grown adults here in Europe they don’t even have a drivers license! It really makes life a lot more convenient when the world does not revolve around an automobile.