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Public support for Israel is steadily falling; this poll was published just a couple of days ago https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-military-a
by willvarfar 1y ago
Public support for Israel is steadily falling; this poll was published just a couple of days ago https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-military-action-gaza-new-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-militar... and other G7 countries are moving to recognise Palestine.
So will the administration's push to use pro-Israel reasons to censure and penalise the universities steadily get out of touch with what the public want and sympathise with?
- Horffupolde 1y agoWhat does “recognizing Palestine” even mean?
- willvarfar 1y agoThis is breaking news over the last few days. Some of the coverage https://www.ft.com/content/2fe65dbf-65a5-41f3-aaab-5661c014628e https://www.ft.com/content/2fe65dbf-65a5-41f3-aaab-5661c0146...
- WJW 1y agoSure, but what kind of action does it imply? North Korea is recognized by (almost?) every country too, but that doesn't mean anyone is hurrying to provide aid to starving North Koreans. Similarly the international recognition of Azerbaijan and Armenia did nothing to prevent one from taking Nagorno-Karabach from the other earlier this year. So "recognizing the Palestinian state" is all good and well, but unless anyone also gets off their butts and actually does something then the situation in Gaza won't actually change.
- estomagordo 1y agoYes, recognizing Palestine should be a very simple and uncontroversial thing. And yet.
- brookst 1y agoIt’s noble of you to say that countries might as well not recognize Palestine because it will do no good, but by and large the Palestinians have a different view and see such recognition as a first step.
- WJW 1y agoThis is not at all what my previous comment said. I said that it might be a first step, but that first step doesn't matter if no further steps are forthcoming.
- azangru 1y ago> Sure, but what kind of action does it imply? A BBC article from a couple of days ago lists about 150 countries that have recognized a Palestinian state, dating back to 1988 (which is, btw, when North Korea recognized it). I don't know what kind of action it implies. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp5z1vvj5o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp5z1vvj5o
- lupusreal 1y agoRabid zionists don't want people to recognize Palestine because if Palestine doesn't in some sense exist then in some sense that erases the crime zionists are committing in eradicating Palestine. It's crazy but that's how it works. Refusal to recognize Palestine is a form of dehumanization, one of the key stages of genocide.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ses1984 1y agoOne of the things that makes a country a country is recognition by other countries. Look it up.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- crinkly 1y agoAs it’s a threat, it’s cheap and easy words to pacify growing hostility within society. It has nothing to do with helping the Palestinian and Israeli people or holding the Israeli government or Hamas to account.
- AndrewHampton 1y agoTangle has a great breakdown of what this means in their article yesterday: https://www.readtangle.com/emil-bove-trump-lawyer-federal-judge/#your-questions-answered https://www.readtangle.com/emil-bove-trump-lawyer-federal-ju... Turns out, it's complicated.
- _DeadFred_ 1y agoPalestinians don't 'recognize' the Palestine that is being recognized. The borders, the leadership, etc. How can a nation recognize a country that that countries' people don't?
- ysofunny 1y agothe god of israelites is merely (trying to) reassert dominance because we have invented universal translators, so all humans can talk to all humans. like in the myth of the Tower of Babel, this pisses of god Israel so they're throwing a huge tantrum
- mensetmanusman 1y agoTower of Babel: The Limits of Human Unity and Ambition
- ysofunny 1y agoThe State of Israel: Victims of collective abuse proceed to collectively deliver the abuse they received the self-perpetuating orphan state, where each orphan is a tragedy and more than that, it's a derelict form of parenting which made sense in the dessert more than 3k years ago
- fabian2k 1y agoAntisemitism is just an excuse for these actions against universities, it's a pretext. Not a particularly believable one anyway, but that doesn't seem to matter. The Trump administration is punishing institutions that disagree with it, or that it dislikes for some reason.
- sitkack 1y agoMAGA is heavily antisemitic, you absolutely right that this is pretext. They would have picked something else, this is just the best one at the time.
- wiz21c 1y agoConsidering US support to Israel, I wonder if MAGA is Trump or not...
- sitkack 1y agohttps://www.huffpost.com/entry/christian-zionism-israel-antisemitic-new-apostolic-reformation_n_667d6b73e4b017bda37be3e4 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/christian-zionism-israel-anti...
- hermitcrab 1y agoI've never really understood the relationship between the US and Israel. The US gives Israel pretty much whatever it wants and in return the US gets ... nothing? Israel even (deliberately?) attacked a US ship during the 6 day war, with little (if any) consequences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident >While millions of American evangelical Christians have long been fervent supporters of the Jewish state because of End Times prophecies Is that the main reason for this incredibly one-sided relationship?
- maleldil 1y agoThe main reason is geopolitics. Israel is an ally in the Middle East, a key region to US foreign policy.
- paxys 1y agoWhen has a dictatorship ever cared about public opinion?
- psychoslave 1y agoWhen setting repressive measure to mute any opposition and skyrocketing the budget of their personal security agaisnt all raising threats?
- brnt 1y agoRemember, dictators are never wrong. They can only ever double down. It's why they are so destructive.
- hermitcrab 1y agoBrian Klaas wrote an interesting article about that, saying that the biggest weakness of dictators/autocrats is that they surround themselves with 'yes men' and quickly lose touch with reality.
- toomuchtodo 1y agoSounds like the tyranny of rocket equation applied to personal security. At some point, the cost to derisk exceeds what is available or logistically feasible.
- __MatrixMan__ 1y ago1793, France. Just ask King Louis XVI.
- asterm 1y ago[flagged]
- IsTom 1y agoI used to think that, until they got more and more aggressive about West Bank and Syria.
- mensetmanusman 1y ago[flagged]
- estearum 1y agoCitation needed
- vFunct 1y ago[flagged]
- mupuff1234 1y agoDidn't Palestinians attack Israel in 1948 and end up losing?
- twixfel 1y agoNo country on Earth and no people on Earth would accept what the UN declared for Palestine and the Palestinians in 1947.
- mupuff1234 1y agoSo violence is the answer?
- twixfel 1y agoThe UN partition was an act of violence. Violence leads to violence. It's not even about right or wrong, it's just eminently predictable and blaming the Arabs for not accepting it is just ridiculous. Of course they didn't accept it. Nobody would have accepted it in their position.
- vFunct 1y agoWhat's going to be interesting is when the next Democratic administration comes into power, they're going to be extremely anti-Israel, given that the Democratic base is fully against Israel now at a 5:1 ratio. There will never be another Democratic President that supports Israel (none of the pro-israel candidates have any hope of ever being President) and this will mean extremely hard anti-Israeli action, using precedent like this to push anti-Islamophobia messages. You can imagine the next Democrat administration defunding universities based on their collaboration with Israel, for example. Or defunding universities based on their punishment of pro-Palestinian demonstrators, etc.. People should accept that Israel lost against Hamas and be prepared for the consequences of that going forward. It's pretty much the same as a Vietnam situation, with the war being won/lost based on public opinion.
- soulofmischief 1y agoHaha, that's funny. What'll really happen is they'll campaign and say one thing, then do another once in office, maintaining status quo for the elite and war machine as they've been doing for decades in tandem with the Republican party, gaslighting the American public at every level.
- Hikikomori 1y agoThe party largely fully supports Israel.
- wiz21c 1y agoI live in Europe and according the common media outlets, the US absolutely, totally, forever support Israel. "largely" is too weak of a word here. And now honnest question: why is this support so strong in the US ? are the ties with the jewish/israely community so deep between these two peoples ?
- twixfel 1y agoThe only country the Americans love and worship more than their own country is Israel. I can understand brain dead nationalism for your own country, but brain dead nationalism for another country, especially one doing the things Israel is doing... it's very strange.
- glitchc 1y agoRelevance to the NSF grant or just practicing whataboutism?
- nyeah 1y agoDo you really think the Trump administration is committed to its pro-Israel position? If they flipped sides, how long would it take for 90% of their voters to adjust and be happy again?
- lupusreal 1y agoWhatever Trump personally feels, he is demonstrably acting in Israel's interests. Maybe they have him blackmailed through Epstein stuff, or maybe he supports Israel due to his family connections or bribes. It doesn't really matter, the end result is the same.
- kolektiv 1y agoGiven their positions on things like Russia, the Epstein files, free trade, etc. (where the position has changed from things that were either broadly "American" values or positions that Trump directly supported) I would guess it would take a day or two. The core "Trump is infallible" demographic will follow him no matter what. If he said the sun set in the morning, they'd blame the sun when it rose.
- cmrdporcupine 1y agoIt is perhaps the deepest position on the American right now, and extremely unlikely to shift. To the point that you have people who have politics that derivates from a populist/nativist right wing historical current that was always virulently anti-Semitic, now being the staunchest backers of the current Israeli government. In the post-9/11 era, hatred of Islam, putting an equals-sign between Jewish and Israeli, and smearing anybody on "the left" who criticizes the actions of the Israeli state as "anti-Semitic", and shoring up the Israeli state with massive financial support ... this is all an ideological bundle that is working extremely well for them. And is allowing them to siphon off support from "moderate" American Democrat voters who share these biases but not the rest of their ideological bill of goods. It's actually allowed them to build a powerful base of support even when they're doing extremely controversial things.
- crinkly 1y agoI think this poll is disingenuously quoted here and may not represent public opinion that well. The questions are very specific rather than general. For example you can disapprove of the military action and the president of a country, but that doesn't mean when asked "pick a winner" you'd pick the other guy. I mean if the US went to war with North Korea and Pyongyang got flattened, I would certainly disapprove of the US military and the president, but I probably wouldn't consider the other party "winning". So as always it depends on which question you ask. You can ask questions to get the answer you paid for (speaking as an ex-statistician who worked for a pollster)
- lupusreal 1y agoSupport for Israel among Americans is starkly stratified along generational lines, with young people on both sides of the traditional partisan divide being broadly sick of Israel's shit. This has Israel freaked out, they know their support from America is now on borrowed time and without it, they are doomed. I think this is why they're pushing so hard now, they're trying to secure their strategic objectives (particularly the annexation of Gaza and the eradication of the Palestinian people) before the American baby boomers, their bastion of support, die or otherwise age out of the political process.
- churchill 1y agoExactly this. Glad someone else can see it. Having studied other settler colonial states (I believe), Israel realizes that Western weapons and doctrine guarantees they'll win every single confrontation with the Palestinians, just like the Rhodesians & Apartheid South Africa. Easily too, with insane KD ratios. Those two regimes won every battle easily, but what eventually did them in was sanctions. And, when the West sanctions you, you eventually collapse or stay economically irrelevant. Case in point: USSR, Maoist China, Rhodesia, South Africa, etc. But, the Boomer, Christian Zionist generation is dying out, along with older Germans (and Europeans) who still struggle with some Teutonic guilt. Irreligious, humanist youngsters across the Americas and Europe now see it's a clear good vs. bad struggle and the Zionists are not the good guys, so Israel likely believes they need to expel the Palestinians from Gaza & the West Bank within one generation or they'll be facing devastating sanctions within 10-20 years. Given that Israel's economy depends heavily on technology service exports, diamonds, and agriculture, if they don't change posture and end up getting sanctioned, it'll cripple them without a doubt. Just cutting off their technology workers' foreign exchange salaries is enough to shrink the economy by half once that FX channel dries up.
- foobarian 1y agoWhat I don't understand is why not go along with letting at least WB or also Gaza get recognized as Palestine and do what India and Pakistan did going forward. Seems like it would be a lot more likely to work and a lot less risky. Maybe there are some special resources in either place?
- TinkersW 1y agoThe poll doesn't ask about support for Israel, it asks about approval for the war in Gaza, a very different question. Easy to disprove of a war that has gone on for this long, while still favoring Israel.