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> This is a macOS bug; it doesn’t need an IP address while it’s asleep. Waking up to renew a DHCP lease is crazy. It's actually not. As a user I'd expect the d

> This is a macOS bug; it doesn’t need an IP address while it’s asleep. Waking up to renew a DHCP lease is crazy. It's actually not. As a user I'd expect the device to wake up and still have the same IP address via a continuation of the lease. Yes, the correct way would be a longer lived DHCP lease, but el-cheapo ISP routers often lock down such settings.

amelius 1y ago
This is a good point (running processes might break if the IP address suddenly changed after wake-up). However, why should the renewal process take on the order of 15 minutes? And why would it require a complete wake up?
ryandrake 1y ago
Interesting, as a different user, I'd expect the opposite: If my computer is "asleep" I don't expect it to do anything, and it shouldn't be able to wake itself up.
- evan_ 1y ago
  that's called "off".
  - scarby2 1y ago
    i suppose we have come to expect 4 states: - off: no power, no activity - hibernate: no power, no activity session state saved to non-volatile storage - sleep: Minimal power, RAM remains powered with the session state, can be resumed quickly - on now we essentially have sleep++ and no option to set it back to vanilla sleep.
    - int_19h 1y ago
      You do have that option, it's just not the defaut. For most people these days the primary device is their phone, and so that is the model that modern laptops are trying to follow, as that is what most users will expect.
    - mcv 1y ago
      Those are the states I expect, indeed, but lately I find them increasingly unreliable. I've had Windows unable to sleep, Linux crashing after hibernating, MacOS issues are addressed aplenty here. I thought this was a solved issue. How are all OSs suddenly so bad at this? I only really trust on and off anymore.
  - theevilsharpie 1y ago
    Turning a machine off loses any existing application state, and requires both applications and the OS to be re-launched. When I put a machine into standby, I want it to go in a standby state, and then stay there until I explicitly wake it -- not keep doing whatever background tasks the OS developers, app developers, or whatever other third parties think they need to keep doing.
    - ruszki 1y ago
      Btw, what’s the functionality which needs this half sleep state with running WiFi and Bluetooth? Laptops worked for decades without this, and I’ve never felt the need to change this. It caused headache for me too many times, and I don’t even know why I would need this.
- kccqzy 1y ago
  The definition of waking itself up is unclear. Surely you expect clicking on your mouse or typing in the keyboard wakes it up? That means USB events or Bluetooth can wake your computer. Still it's user-triggered and doesn't count as waking itself up. And I expect that initiating an SSH connection to that computer causes it to wake up, because I initiated that SSH connection; so it doesn't count as waking itself up. I further configured my computer to back up to my NAS every day at midnight. Since I configured it myself I expect it to wake up on a timer and it still doesn't count as waking itself up.
kelnos 1y ago
> As a user I'd expect the device to wake up and still have the same IP address via a continuation of the lease. Most users don't know what IP addresses even are, let alone care what theirs is. I don't think Apple is (or should be) optimizing for you.
- nsksl 1y ago
  Okay, then… As a user I’d expect the device not to waste any time connecting to my wireless network and getting a dhcp lease, instead being already connected when I open the lid.

amelius 1y ago

This is a good point (running processes might break if the IP address suddenly changed after wake-up). However, why should the renewal process take on the order of 15 minutes? And why would it require a complete wake up?

ryandrake 1y ago

Interesting, as a different user, I'd expect the opposite: If my computer is "asleep" I don't expect it to do anything, and it shouldn't be able to wake itself up.

evan_ 1y ago
that's called "off".
- scarby2 1y ago
  i suppose we have come to expect 4 states: - off: no power, no activity - hibernate: no power, no activity session state saved to non-volatile storage - sleep: Minimal power, RAM remains powered with the session state, can be resumed quickly - on now we essentially have sleep++ and no option to set it back to vanilla sleep.
  - int_19h 1y ago
    You do have that option, it's just not the defaut. For most people these days the primary device is their phone, and so that is the model that modern laptops are trying to follow, as that is what most users will expect.
  - mcv 1y ago
    Those are the states I expect, indeed, but lately I find them increasingly unreliable. I've had Windows unable to sleep, Linux crashing after hibernating, MacOS issues are addressed aplenty here. I thought this was a solved issue. How are all OSs suddenly so bad at this? I only really trust on and off anymore.
- theevilsharpie 1y ago
  Turning a machine off loses any existing application state, and requires both applications and the OS to be re-launched. When I put a machine into standby, I want it to go in a standby state, and then stay there until I explicitly wake it -- not keep doing whatever background tasks the OS developers, app developers, or whatever other third parties think they need to keep doing.
  - ruszki 1y ago
    Btw, what’s the functionality which needs this half sleep state with running WiFi and Bluetooth? Laptops worked for decades without this, and I’ve never felt the need to change this. It caused headache for me too many times, and I don’t even know why I would need this.
kccqzy 1y ago
The definition of waking itself up is unclear. Surely you expect clicking on your mouse or typing in the keyboard wakes it up? That means USB events or Bluetooth can wake your computer. Still it's user-triggered and doesn't count as waking itself up. And I expect that initiating an SSH connection to that computer causes it to wake up, because I initiated that SSH connection; so it doesn't count as waking itself up. I further configured my computer to back up to my NAS every day at midnight. Since I configured it myself I expect it to wake up on a timer and it still doesn't count as waking itself up.

kelnos 1y ago

> As a user I'd expect the device to wake up and still have the same IP address via a continuation of the lease. Most users don't know what IP addresses even are, let alone care what theirs is. I don't think Apple is (or should be) optimizing for you.

nsksl 1y ago
Okay, then… As a user I’d expect the device not to waste any time connecting to my wireless network and getting a dhcp lease, instead being already connected when I open the lid.