45 ms·

> Finally, anyone paying attention knows that the UK government’s Investigatory Powers Act (IPA) impacts all vendors globally which service individuals in the U

> Finally, anyone paying attention knows that the UK government’s Investigatory Powers Act (IPA) impacts all vendors globally which service individuals in the UK. Something that’s obvious given the high profile TCN that the UK served Apple: the fact that Element and the Matrix.org Foundation are UK-based is irrelevant. Is it irrelevant? A vendor that isn't based in the UK could just rightfully tell the UK government to fuck off—which isn't likely to be an option for the UK-based Matrix and Element.

atoav 1y ago
Ok let's say you're a UK vendor and you developed and published an adding algorithm for 2+2 that returns the correct result: 4 How does that publicised adding algorithm get corrupted, if the UK government decides they want that 2+2=5? The answer is that matrix being based in the UK isn't ideal, but since they published the whole protocol, it can't just be made unsafe on request without people noticing. If the math maths it still maths when the government doesn't want it to math. What could happen is that the UK could force specific servers of the UK based entity to surveil targets etc. But you don't have to use their servers (in fact, their goal is probably that you run your own). As someone who would be in the position to decide for or against matrix/wire usage in my org, I have to say this kind of pratise didn't particularily strengthen my trust in wire.
- hyghjiyhu 1y ago
  > it can't just be made unsafe on request without people noticing A likely outcome is that they make it unsafe and people do notice.
  - atoav 1y ago
    Yes but even then: If they make 2+2 wrong and people notice, people can just continue to use the correct version. I don't know the matrix org but if I were them I had a plan in a drawer for when that happens and where to move.
  - armchairhacker 1y ago
    It's a protocol, people can use the old version (or patch whatever makes it unsafe).
  - gagik_co 1y ago
    Any open source project can be made unsafe intentionally or unintentionally, with or without people noticing, is there anything unique to this risk with Matrix?

atoav 1y ago

Ok let's say you're a UK vendor and you developed and published an adding algorithm for 2+2 that returns the correct result: 4 How does that publicised adding algorithm get corrupted, if the UK government decides they want that 2+2=5? The answer is that matrix being based in the UK isn't ideal, but since they published the whole protocol, it can't just be made unsafe on request without people noticing. If the math maths it still maths when the government doesn't want it to math. What could happen is that the UK could force specific servers of the UK based entity to surveil targets etc. But you don't have to use their servers (in fact, their goal is probably that you run your own). As someone who would be in the position to decide for or against matrix/wire usage in my org, I have to say this kind of pratise didn't particularily strengthen my trust in wire.

hyghjiyhu 1y ago
> it can't just be made unsafe on request without people noticing A likely outcome is that they make it unsafe and people do notice.
- atoav 1y ago
  Yes but even then: If they make 2+2 wrong and people notice, people can just continue to use the correct version. I don't know the matrix org but if I were them I had a plan in a drawer for when that happens and where to move.
- armchairhacker 1y ago
  It's a protocol, people can use the old version (or patch whatever makes it unsafe).
- gagik_co 1y ago
  Any open source project can be made unsafe intentionally or unintentionally, with or without people noticing, is there anything unique to this risk with Matrix?