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Confessions of the Working Poor

ryandrake 1y ago
> My parents never had financial drama. My dad was an elementary school teacher and then a school administrator in Victoria. My mom stayed at home to raise me and my brother. We were comfortable. My parents owned our home. This is the part that always gets me mad (and jealous!). How the previous generation was able to just casually cruise along and live comfortably, where the same employment situation (1/2 of the adults in the household working, as a schoolteacher no less) results in crippling poverty today. I wonder if it's possible to make it even worse for Gen-Z and the next generations. Sadly, I'm sure we'll find out.
- constantcrying 1y ago
  Maybe I do not understand Canada. But 2.8k in income seems solid middle class with a lot of flexibility. It is a pretty good salary as a software engineer in the beginning of your career, at least here in Germany.
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    She points out the average monthly rent for a one-bedroom apartment in her area is more than $2,000, so that doesn't leave a lot left over to live on.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- quantummagic 1y ago
  > How the previous generation was able to just casually cruise along and live comfortably.. This is a very skewed perception of reality, one that we'd all do better to moderate. There was indeed a relatively small population that were the beneficiaries of a confluence of factors (technology, geopolitics, demographics, etc), that let them live as you describe. But it was an anomalous miracle that was confined to a select few Westerners, for a very short time span. And MOST of the previous generation were living in pre-industrial subsistence farming communities spread around the world, like countless generations that went before. That concentrated wealth has now been spread to other people around the world, and means that we don't get to live like kings, while the rest of the world lives in squalor. There will always be wealth inequality, and it's easy to see those who are living like near-gods around us, but in general, the world is much more fair today, and the wealth is spread to a much higher percentage of the world's population, than ever before.
  - graemep 1y ago
    I do not think that really explains it. For one thing you are arguing that living standards have fallen in rich countries because the wealth is more spread out. The numbers say that both rich countries and the world as a whole have better off. It is more about the cost of things that are in limited supply (land, for example) and the distribution of wealth within those countries.
    - quantummagic 1y ago
      The limited supply is because natural resources (especially oil) are now competed for by a much larger percentage of the world (ie. higher demand). Even the population of the US is much larger, contributing to the same result. The outsized wealth of Americans from a generation or two ago, was a mirage, and an incredible aberration in history; predicated on the exploitation, and relatively unfettered extraction of resources from around the world.
      - graemep 1y ago
        The numbers say (inflation adjusted) per capita GDP is a lot higher in just every developed country than it was a generation or two ago. If inflation was the reason, as you suggest, that would not be the case.
        ryandrake 1y ago
        It's almost as if per capita GDP isn't a great measurement of general quality of life.
        quantummagic 1y ago
        I never said it had anything to do with inflation. There are a lot of factors, as I said, geopolitics, demographics, emerging technologies and industrialization, etc. But it is ridiculous to think that supply and demand has nothing to do with where we find ourselves. There are certain fixed or constrained resources (land, etc) that more people are competing for today than ever before. The world population has doubled (or more) since the glory days of the USA, if nothing else.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
supportengineer 1y ago
"Working Poor" in the Bay Area means being a mere single-digit millionaire.
- aprilthird2021 1y ago
  no it doesn't
- throwawayoldie 1y ago
  Please clarify if you're trolling, being sarcastic, or if you actually believe this. In any case, it's not so.
- Moomoomoo309 1y ago
  Please, go on Zillow and look at what rent prices actually are. They're expensive, but not that expensive.
jmye 1y ago
I read stories like this, and while I’m sympathetic to the fact that shit is expensive and that really sucks for some people, I can’t help but see “I’m allergic to toxic workplaces [and all workplaces are toxic]” as a huge, neon sign, pointing at the biggest issue. Sorry, if every single place you ever work is “toxic”, it’s not likely the workplaces. It’s a serious personal issue. If you don’t want to deal with that, that’s fine, but you’re going to end up on the fringes, whether you think that’s right/wrong/fair/unfair. At some point, it seems like you should face the fact that this is your life because you chose it.

> My parents never had financial drama. My dad was an elementary school teacher and then a school administrator in Victoria. My mom stayed at home to raise me and my brother. We were comfortable. My parents owned our home. This is the part that always gets me mad (and jealous!). How the previous generation was able to just casually cruise along and live comfortably, where the same employment situation (1/2 of the adults in the household working, as a schoolteacher no less) results in crippling poverty today. I wonder if it's possible to make it even worse for Gen-Z and the next generations. Sadly, I'm sure we'll find out.

constantcrying 1y ago
Maybe I do not understand Canada. But 2.8k in income seems solid middle class with a lot of flexibility. It is a pretty good salary as a software engineer in the beginning of your career, at least here in Germany.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  She points out the average monthly rent for a one-bedroom apartment in her area is more than $2,000, so that doesn't leave a lot left over to live on.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
quantummagic 1y ago
> How the previous generation was able to just casually cruise along and live comfortably.. This is a very skewed perception of reality, one that we'd all do better to moderate. There was indeed a relatively small population that were the beneficiaries of a confluence of factors (technology, geopolitics, demographics, etc), that let them live as you describe. But it was an anomalous miracle that was confined to a select few Westerners, for a very short time span. And MOST of the previous generation were living in pre-industrial subsistence farming communities spread around the world, like countless generations that went before. That concentrated wealth has now been spread to other people around the world, and means that we don't get to live like kings, while the rest of the world lives in squalor. There will always be wealth inequality, and it's easy to see those who are living like near-gods around us, but in general, the world is much more fair today, and the wealth is spread to a much higher percentage of the world's population, than ever before.
- graemep 1y ago
  I do not think that really explains it. For one thing you are arguing that living standards have fallen in rich countries because the wealth is more spread out. The numbers say that both rich countries and the world as a whole have better off. It is more about the cost of things that are in limited supply (land, for example) and the distribution of wealth within those countries.
  - quantummagic 1y ago
    The limited supply is because natural resources (especially oil) are now competed for by a much larger percentage of the world (ie. higher demand). Even the population of the US is much larger, contributing to the same result. The outsized wealth of Americans from a generation or two ago, was a mirage, and an incredible aberration in history; predicated on the exploitation, and relatively unfettered extraction of resources from around the world.
    - graemep 1y ago
      The numbers say (inflation adjusted) per capita GDP is a lot higher in just every developed country than it was a generation or two ago. If inflation was the reason, as you suggest, that would not be the case.
      - ryandrake 1y ago
        It's almost as if per capita GDP isn't a great measurement of general quality of life.
      - quantummagic 1y ago
        I never said it had anything to do with inflation. There are a lot of factors, as I said, geopolitics, demographics, emerging technologies and industrialization, etc. But it is ridiculous to think that supply and demand has nothing to do with where we find ourselves. There are certain fixed or constrained resources (land, etc) that more people are competing for today than ever before. The world population has doubled (or more) since the glory days of the USA, if nothing else.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

supportengineer 1y ago

"Working Poor" in the Bay Area means being a mere single-digit millionaire.

aprilthird2021 1y ago
no it doesn't
throwawayoldie 1y ago
Please clarify if you're trolling, being sarcastic, or if you actually believe this. In any case, it's not so.
Moomoomoo309 1y ago
Please, go on Zillow and look at what rent prices actually are. They're expensive, but not that expensive.

jmye 1y ago

I read stories like this, and while I’m sympathetic to the fact that shit is expensive and that really sucks for some people, I can’t help but see “I’m allergic to toxic workplaces [and all workplaces are toxic]” as a huge, neon sign, pointing at the biggest issue. Sorry, if every single place you ever work is “toxic”, it’s not likely the workplaces. It’s a serious personal issue. If you don’t want to deal with that, that’s fine, but you’re going to end up on the fringes, whether you think that’s right/wrong/fair/unfair. At some point, it seems like you should face the fact that this is your life because you chose it.