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Going 30 on anything that resembles a bike in geometry and construction is not a leisurely activity one engages in casually. 40 is pushing it, 50 you know is u

Going 30 on anything that resembles a bike in geometry and construction is not a leisurely activity one engages in casually. 40 is pushing it, 50 you know is unsafe. 70 is a publicity stunt in a controlled environment. Yes, I know road bikes (with or without electricity) hit high speeds in certain situations, but those situations are away from traffic or potential traffic, a big downhill in the middle of nowhere or a race course or something like that. This is a self solving problem. It doesn't need a law. Nobody is going lightening fast on anything that resembles a bike except in the few situations where a) they can b) doing so is less sketchy than not (e.g. going faster than the bike "likes" is can be less sketchy than going too slow for traffic). The fact that there is a huge pent up demand for "totally not a moped" type stuff really goes to show you the degree to which not laughing these people out of town has already perverted the personal transportation market. Edit: The above are Philly speeds. Add 5-10mph for Miami or somewhere else wide, smooth and flat with great visibility. But the cars are going faster there too and the pedestrians are fewer and/or more removes so I don't think it actually matters.

philipkglass 1y ago
They may be more concerned about risks to pedestrians and people on slower bicycles rather than risks to the speeders themselves.
droopyEyelids 1y ago
The way I'm interpreting what you said, it feels like you're dismissing the state's role in protecting the health of citizens. Especially children, who are known to be deficient in their judgement and decision making. It's not reasonable to say "every parent should learn about the dangers of different types of electric vehicle through the injury of a child in their peer group"
Sayrus 1y ago
Let's face it, an e-bike that goes to 70 rarely looks like a bike. For instance: - https://hpcbikes.com/products/revolution-xx https://hpcbikes.com/products/revolution-xx - https://www.eridepros.com/pro-sr https://www.eridepros.com/pro-sr (no bicycle pedals) I was able to find some 60MPH e-bikes that looks somewhat like a very bulky bike but even then, it's still closer to a motorcycle with pedals.
- Night_Thastus 1y ago
  It's a motorcycle that in theory can be pedaled manually.
- shkkmo 1y ago
  That's not an e-bike. That's an e-moto. It is sold and marketed as an e-moto and has no pedals. Depending on the jusrisdiction. these can often only be legally ridden on private property since they aren't street legal motorcycles. Some jurisdiction may allow them to be used in public OHV areas.
  - Sayrus 1y ago
    I realized that and edited my comment with a link for one with pedals, bicycle saddle and 10kW power.
    - shkkmo 1y ago
      You've misunderstood that law. > By law, an electric bicycle is a bicycle that (1) has operable foot pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts and (2) qualifies as a class 1, class 2, or class 3 bicycle https://www.cga.ct.gov/2024/rpt/pdf/2024-R-0154.pdf https://www.cga.ct.gov/2024/rpt/pdf/2024-R-0154.pdf
      - Sayrus 1y ago
        Thanks, I also edited the answer. That also gives context to the sentence in the article: > Connecticut already uses the common three-class system that codifies legal e-bikes as up to 20 mph (32 km/h) and 750W (one horsepower) for Class 1 and 2, or up to 28 mph (45 km/h) for Class 3 e-bikes. So these device are already not street-legal and not allowed to be sold as e-bikes, right? Even at 30mph they aren't classified as e-bikes. Were they previously in an undefined zone and are now classified as motor-driven cycle/motorcycle? Then I don't understand the claim that this will change anything since "an electric motor of less than 750 watts" cannot provide anywhere near even 50MPH on a bike-sized device.
Dylan16807 1y ago
I think your argument works in a callous way if we ignore any speeds between 30 and 70 and we also ignore teenagers. But in reality there's a lot of untrained teens going different levels of too fast and that is something we should be trying to prevent.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  Teenagers are gonna find a way to get dead at any/every speed. While something like 40-50 would be a wild speed to try to do on the potholed and crowded streets of NYC there are many rural roads as well as roads in more sprawled urban areas where being able to zip down the shoulder at such speeds where conditions permit is a worthwhile capability for the sake of both reducing travel times and speed differentials with automotive traffic. That said, bicycle steering/suspension geometry is not made for that so it really is not the kind of capability a rider with any sense of self preservation will find themselves employing just anywhere.
criddell 1y ago
The road through my neighborhood has a speed limit of 40 mph. I drive around that speed and there are often kids on ebikes (on the sidewalk!) pacing me or even going faster.
hnuser123456 1y ago
I have a class 3 ebike, so 20mph throttle-only, 28mph if you pretend to pedal for whatever reason. The requirement to pedal is more dangerous than the speed. It's fast, but on a long, straight, paved path, it's not that scary, and I wanted to go faster. If I could just throttle it up to 35mph, I wouldn't even need bike lanes around town. 45mph, and I could easily get to the next town over. It's a lighter, slower, cheaper motorcycle that doesn't need a license, registration, insurance, or gasoline. I really do think we should add a few more classes for higher speeds, and I don't think we need more barriers to entry either. I'm not sure what about this is worth laughing at?
- nluken 1y ago
  > If I could just throttle it up to 35mph, I wouldn't even need bike lanes around town. 45mph, and I could easily get to the next town over. The "higher class" of which you speak has existed for a long time, albeit usually fulfilled by gas powered vehicles until recently: https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/primavera/primavera-50-4s3v-2024/ https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/primavera/primavera-50-4s... There's a reason why we require license, registration, and insurance to operate mopeds but not bicycles. You're far more dangerous to pedestrians, other cyclists, and yourself at these kinds of speeds.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    >There's a reason why we require license, registration, and insurance to operate mopeds but not bicycles Pedestrian dander is a stupid red herring. When cyclists ride in the road they are at most equal danger to pedestrians as the cars in the road. That reason mopeds are neutered by regulation is that the Karens of yesteryear didn't like the noises they made. A few dumb people riding them on the sidewalk was just the pretext.
    - tetromino_ 1y ago
      > When cyclists ride in the road they are at most equal danger to pedestrians as the cars in the road. When e-cyclists ride in the road and obey the same traffic laws as cars in regard to traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrian crossings, and direction of traffic. But in practice a majority of them don't.

philipkglass 1y ago

They may be more concerned about risks to pedestrians and people on slower bicycles rather than risks to the speeders themselves.

droopyEyelids 1y ago

The way I'm interpreting what you said, it feels like you're dismissing the state's role in protecting the health of citizens. Especially children, who are known to be deficient in their judgement and decision making. It's not reasonable to say "every parent should learn about the dangers of different types of electric vehicle through the injury of a child in their peer group"

Sayrus 1y ago

Let's face it, an e-bike that goes to 70 rarely looks like a bike. For instance: - https://hpcbikes.com/products/revolution-xx https://hpcbikes.com/products/revolution-xx - https://www.eridepros.com/pro-sr https://www.eridepros.com/pro-sr (no bicycle pedals) I was able to find some 60MPH e-bikes that looks somewhat like a very bulky bike but even then, it's still closer to a motorcycle with pedals.

Night_Thastus 1y ago
It's a motorcycle that in theory can be pedaled manually.
shkkmo 1y ago
That's not an e-bike. That's an e-moto. It is sold and marketed as an e-moto and has no pedals. Depending on the jusrisdiction. these can often only be legally ridden on private property since they aren't street legal motorcycles. Some jurisdiction may allow them to be used in public OHV areas.
- Sayrus 1y ago
  I realized that and edited my comment with a link for one with pedals, bicycle saddle and 10kW power.
  - shkkmo 1y ago
    You've misunderstood that law. > By law, an electric bicycle is a bicycle that (1) has operable foot pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts and (2) qualifies as a class 1, class 2, or class 3 bicycle https://www.cga.ct.gov/2024/rpt/pdf/2024-R-0154.pdf https://www.cga.ct.gov/2024/rpt/pdf/2024-R-0154.pdf
    - Sayrus 1y ago
      Thanks, I also edited the answer. That also gives context to the sentence in the article: > Connecticut already uses the common three-class system that codifies legal e-bikes as up to 20 mph (32 km/h) and 750W (one horsepower) for Class 1 and 2, or up to 28 mph (45 km/h) for Class 3 e-bikes. So these device are already not street-legal and not allowed to be sold as e-bikes, right? Even at 30mph they aren't classified as e-bikes. Were they previously in an undefined zone and are now classified as motor-driven cycle/motorcycle? Then I don't understand the claim that this will change anything since "an electric motor of less than 750 watts" cannot provide anywhere near even 50MPH on a bike-sized device.

Dylan16807 1y ago

I think your argument works in a callous way if we ignore any speeds between 30 and 70 and we also ignore teenagers. But in reality there's a lot of untrained teens going different levels of too fast and that is something we should be trying to prevent.

potato3732842 1y ago
Teenagers are gonna find a way to get dead at any/every speed. While something like 40-50 would be a wild speed to try to do on the potholed and crowded streets of NYC there are many rural roads as well as roads in more sprawled urban areas where being able to zip down the shoulder at such speeds where conditions permit is a worthwhile capability for the sake of both reducing travel times and speed differentials with automotive traffic. That said, bicycle steering/suspension geometry is not made for that so it really is not the kind of capability a rider with any sense of self preservation will find themselves employing just anywhere.

criddell 1y ago

The road through my neighborhood has a speed limit of 40 mph. I drive around that speed and there are often kids on ebikes (on the sidewalk!) pacing me or even going faster.

hnuser123456 1y ago

I have a class 3 ebike, so 20mph throttle-only, 28mph if you pretend to pedal for whatever reason. The requirement to pedal is more dangerous than the speed. It's fast, but on a long, straight, paved path, it's not that scary, and I wanted to go faster. If I could just throttle it up to 35mph, I wouldn't even need bike lanes around town. 45mph, and I could easily get to the next town over. It's a lighter, slower, cheaper motorcycle that doesn't need a license, registration, insurance, or gasoline. I really do think we should add a few more classes for higher speeds, and I don't think we need more barriers to entry either. I'm not sure what about this is worth laughing at?

nluken 1y ago
> If I could just throttle it up to 35mph, I wouldn't even need bike lanes around town. 45mph, and I could easily get to the next town over. The "higher class" of which you speak has existed for a long time, albeit usually fulfilled by gas powered vehicles until recently: https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/primavera/primavera-50-4s3v-2024/ https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/primavera/primavera-50-4s... There's a reason why we require license, registration, and insurance to operate mopeds but not bicycles. You're far more dangerous to pedestrians, other cyclists, and yourself at these kinds of speeds.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  >There's a reason why we require license, registration, and insurance to operate mopeds but not bicycles Pedestrian dander is a stupid red herring. When cyclists ride in the road they are at most equal danger to pedestrians as the cars in the road. That reason mopeds are neutered by regulation is that the Karens of yesteryear didn't like the noises they made. A few dumb people riding them on the sidewalk was just the pretext.
  - tetromino_ 1y ago
    > When cyclists ride in the road they are at most equal danger to pedestrians as the cars in the road. When e-cyclists ride in the road and obey the same traffic laws as cars in regard to traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrian crossings, and direction of traffic. But in practice a majority of them don't.