8 ms·

I'm a Bryan Cantrill fan so I'm glad this is working out, I was extremely skeptical of them at the beginning(on HN too), I think because I've built DCs for many

by neom 1y ago

I'm a Bryan Cantrill fan so I'm glad this is working out, I was extremely skeptical of them at the beginning(on HN too), I think because I've built DCs for many years and was stuck in a mindset that served my use case, I've come around to Oxide. My main concerns originally were 2 fold: "this seems bougie", is there actually a market for this, and, is there a good interoperability story with mix and match. From what I could tell the answers were "yes" and "don't care" - I had thought this wasn't a great answer but it seems I'm wrong. I was chatting with Boris Mann just last week about them and he said "actually John that isn't correct, think of how much quick compute needs to come online and how much discreet compute is going to be required with low management overhead, they're doing just fine and that market will grow" - After that I did some research and pondered on it for a day - I think my friend is right and I am wrong, I think at this point Oxide is going to be a really strong name and I wish them the best of luck.

sethops1 1y ago
I was skeptical as well, if only because just being a better product isn't enough to win the market. Everything we hear about Oxide sounds like an impressive green field implementation of a data center, but is that enough? Do the people making buying decisions at this scale care if their sysadmins have better tools?
- 9dev 1y ago
  If it translates to improved efficiency, sure. And this big of a round seems to indicate that idea has some merit
- transpute 1y ago
  What percentage of enterprise IT compute has not moved to a public cloud?
  - dmoy 1y ago
    I'm not sure anyone really knows uptime institute publishes some good numbers from survey, which puts on prem + colo still at >50% last I checked. And still some additional 5% in like... on prem in closets. Last year Amazon said it was 85% on prem. I dunno who has the right numbers.
  - cortesoft 1y ago
    I know I have been involved in multiple efforts to move the same workloads into and then out of the cloud, as corporate budgeting requirements prioritized either capex or opex at different times.
  - chadk 1y ago
    Only 30% have moved to the public cloud https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/cloud-revenues-poised-to-reach-2-trillion-by-2030-amid-ai-rollout https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/cloud-revenue...
  - esseph 1y ago
    Every single company I've worked with over the past 5 years has been repatriating from the cloud to their own DCs or colo. The cloud doesn't pan out for long running, predictable workloads. Most companies are and will continue to use VMs for many years.
- zer00eyz 1y ago
  > Do the people making buying decisions at this scale care if their sysadmins have better tools? Look at who oxide is selling to and for what reasons. It's about compute + software at rack scales. It does not matter if it is good it matters that it's integrated. Gear at this level is getting sold with a service contract and "good" means you dont have to field as many calls (keeping the margins up). > Everything we hear about Oxide sounds like an impressive green field implementation of a data center, but is that enough? Look at their CPU density and do the math on power. It's fairly low density. Look at the interconnects (100gb per system). Also fairly conservative. It's the perfect product to replace hardware that is aging out, as you wont have to re-plumb for more power/bandwidth, and you still get a massive upgrade.
  - keeda 1y ago
    As someone only tangentially familiar with this domain, I have questions about this: > Look at their CPU density and do the math on power. It's fairly low density. Look at the interconnects (100gb per system). Also fairly conservative. It's the perfect product to replace hardware that is aging out, as you wont have to re-plumb for more power/bandwidth, and you still get a massive upgrade. It sounds like the CPU density and network bandwidth are not great. If it's only suitable to replace aging systems, does that not limit their TAM? Or is that going to be their beachhead for grabbing further market share.
    - steveklabnik 1y ago
      I am not saying that I fully endorse the characterization of the parent, but it is true that we started selling these systems two years ago, and new hardware comes out with better stats all the time. Given how small we are, new designs and refreshes take a while. Part of growing as a company is being able to do this more often. We'll get there :)
    - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
      For a small company, a limited TAM isn't a problem (and honestly is probably an advantage) if the overall market is big. Datacenters as a whole are a ~$30B market per year. The last thing you want as a small company is a bunch of different customers pulling you in different directions. By limiting your TAM, you limit the number of problems you need to solve for a few years, and if everything goes well and you start outgrowing your TAM, you can expand later.
- esseph 1y ago
  I imagine most of the customers are highly technical, not typical generic business class.
throwpup666 1y ago
I still dont get it. If someone else's software is running the hardware, what difference does it make if its on-prem or offsite?
- transpute 1y ago
  Is the software open-source with reproducible builds of any runtime binaries? Oxide has been remarkably transparent about the development and architecture of critical system components. We can only hope they succeed and inspire others to follow their transparency lead.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - gtirloni 1y ago
    Open source is a requirement but not the only one. There are countless examples of companies building integrated solutions based off of open source projects that, when they went bankrupt, there was nobody to pick up the available pieces and continue moving the stack forward. Just pointing out that open source is not this magical escape hatch that some people think (at least not in corporate environments).
    - yencabulator 1y ago
      Especially so for Oxide's decidedly non-Linux setup. They are in a niche software ecosystem with practically no one else. Apparently mostly because they're practically all ex-Solaris staff. https://www.illumos.org/docs/about/who/ https://www.illumos.org/docs/about/who/ (Listing all projects using ZFS or DTrace as "who uses Illumos" is cheating.)
      - sunshowers 1y ago
        > Apparently mostly because they're practically all ex-Solaris staff. I absolutely do not have a Solaris/illumos background! The first time I ever sshed into an illumos machine was my first day on the job.
0xbadcafebee 1y ago
Even if it makes no sense as a technical thing, businesses will buy it. Look at all the huge companies that keep spending millions trying to DIY their own datacenter for the 3rd time. Enterprise loves to buy big iron and self-hosting crap, so I'm sure they will be successful selling this. However, I think they're going to need to branch out to more services in order to continue increasing their revenue every year (after 5+ years lets say).
- mike_d 1y ago
  > Look at all the huge companies that keep spending millions trying to DIY their own datacenter for the 3rd time You mean all the huge companies that ran multiple datacenters before the cloud was even a thing?
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unicornhose 1y ago
I must admit that I am much more unsophisticated than this, and yet I "invested" in Oxide (by running my own projects off Oxide servers), and it is gratifying to see them continue to grow. My (naive) assessment: (a) agreed with Cantrill's opinions on software, (b) liked his willingness to put himself out there, and (c) felt the eng blogs showed a high level of (socio-)technical ability. I think for the internet to break out of walled gardens, high-quality independent datacenters need to exist -- nobody wants to manage their own datacenters, and nobody wants to rely on Google/Amazon/Microsoft's platforms or (even worse) business products. I hope this continues.
- cpach 1y ago
  Did you order a unit from them or how did you manage to get access to the Oxide hardware?
  - unicornhose 1y ago
    Uh no I just rent a box from them.
    - steveklabnik 1y ago
      How are you doing that?
      - unicornhose 1y ago
        Wow, looks like I am not doing that. oxide.host is an entirely different company.
        steveklabnik 1y ago
        Haha no worries! I was a bit confused, but now I learn about that company! Thanks :)
        deleted 1y ago
zem 1y ago
I'm a fan just because they have such an incredibly good sounding product. like, it has no relevance to me, I'll never use it, but I get a deep sense of satisfaction just reading about how it works.

by neom 1y ago

sethops1 1y ago

I was skeptical as well, if only because just being a better product isn't enough to win the market. Everything we hear about Oxide sounds like an impressive green field implementation of a data center, but is that enough? Do the people making buying decisions at this scale care if their sysadmins have better tools?

9dev 1y ago
If it translates to improved efficiency, sure. And this big of a round seems to indicate that idea has some merit
transpute 1y ago
What percentage of enterprise IT compute has not moved to a public cloud?
- dmoy 1y ago
  I'm not sure anyone really knows uptime institute publishes some good numbers from survey, which puts on prem + colo still at >50% last I checked. And still some additional 5% in like... on prem in closets. Last year Amazon said it was 85% on prem. I dunno who has the right numbers.
- cortesoft 1y ago
  I know I have been involved in multiple efforts to move the same workloads into and then out of the cloud, as corporate budgeting requirements prioritized either capex or opex at different times.
- chadk 1y ago
  Only 30% have moved to the public cloud https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/cloud-revenues-poised-to-reach-2-trillion-by-2030-amid-ai-rollout https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/cloud-revenue...
- esseph 1y ago
  Every single company I've worked with over the past 5 years has been repatriating from the cloud to their own DCs or colo. The cloud doesn't pan out for long running, predictable workloads. Most companies are and will continue to use VMs for many years.
zer00eyz 1y ago
> Do the people making buying decisions at this scale care if their sysadmins have better tools? Look at who oxide is selling to and for what reasons. It's about compute + software at rack scales. It does not matter if it is good it matters that it's integrated. Gear at this level is getting sold with a service contract and "good" means you dont have to field as many calls (keeping the margins up). > Everything we hear about Oxide sounds like an impressive green field implementation of a data center, but is that enough? Look at their CPU density and do the math on power. It's fairly low density. Look at the interconnects (100gb per system). Also fairly conservative. It's the perfect product to replace hardware that is aging out, as you wont have to re-plumb for more power/bandwidth, and you still get a massive upgrade.
- keeda 1y ago
  As someone only tangentially familiar with this domain, I have questions about this: > Look at their CPU density and do the math on power. It's fairly low density. Look at the interconnects (100gb per system). Also fairly conservative. It's the perfect product to replace hardware that is aging out, as you wont have to re-plumb for more power/bandwidth, and you still get a massive upgrade. It sounds like the CPU density and network bandwidth are not great. If it's only suitable to replace aging systems, does that not limit their TAM? Or is that going to be their beachhead for grabbing further market share.
  - steveklabnik 1y ago
    I am not saying that I fully endorse the characterization of the parent, but it is true that we started selling these systems two years ago, and new hardware comes out with better stats all the time. Given how small we are, new designs and refreshes take a while. Part of growing as a company is being able to do this more often. We'll get there :)
  - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
    For a small company, a limited TAM isn't a problem (and honestly is probably an advantage) if the overall market is big. Datacenters as a whole are a ~$30B market per year. The last thing you want as a small company is a bunch of different customers pulling you in different directions. By limiting your TAM, you limit the number of problems you need to solve for a few years, and if everything goes well and you start outgrowing your TAM, you can expand later.
esseph 1y ago
I imagine most of the customers are highly technical, not typical generic business class.

throwpup666 1y ago

I still dont get it. If someone else's software is running the hardware, what difference does it make if its on-prem or offsite?

transpute 1y ago
Is the software open-source with reproducible builds of any runtime binaries? Oxide has been remarkably transparent about the development and architecture of critical system components. We can only hope they succeed and inspire others to follow their transparency lead.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- gtirloni 1y ago
  Open source is a requirement but not the only one. There are countless examples of companies building integrated solutions based off of open source projects that, when they went bankrupt, there was nobody to pick up the available pieces and continue moving the stack forward. Just pointing out that open source is not this magical escape hatch that some people think (at least not in corporate environments).
  - yencabulator 1y ago
    Especially so for Oxide's decidedly non-Linux setup. They are in a niche software ecosystem with practically no one else. Apparently mostly because they're practically all ex-Solaris staff. https://www.illumos.org/docs/about/who/ https://www.illumos.org/docs/about/who/ (Listing all projects using ZFS or DTrace as "who uses Illumos" is cheating.)
    - sunshowers 1y ago
      > Apparently mostly because they're practically all ex-Solaris staff. I absolutely do not have a Solaris/illumos background! The first time I ever sshed into an illumos machine was my first day on the job.

0xbadcafebee 1y ago

Even if it makes no sense as a technical thing, businesses will buy it. Look at all the huge companies that keep spending millions trying to DIY their own datacenter for the 3rd time. Enterprise loves to buy big iron and self-hosting crap, so I'm sure they will be successful selling this. However, I think they're going to need to branch out to more services in order to continue increasing their revenue every year (after 5+ years lets say).

mike_d 1y ago
> Look at all the huge companies that keep spending millions trying to DIY their own datacenter for the 3rd time You mean all the huge companies that ran multiple datacenters before the cloud was even a thing?

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unicornhose 1y ago

I must admit that I am much more unsophisticated than this, and yet I "invested" in Oxide (by running my own projects off Oxide servers), and it is gratifying to see them continue to grow. My (naive) assessment: (a) agreed with Cantrill's opinions on software, (b) liked his willingness to put himself out there, and (c) felt the eng blogs showed a high level of (socio-)technical ability. I think for the internet to break out of walled gardens, high-quality independent datacenters need to exist -- nobody wants to manage their own datacenters, and nobody wants to rely on Google/Amazon/Microsoft's platforms or (even worse) business products. I hope this continues.

cpach 1y ago
Did you order a unit from them or how did you manage to get access to the Oxide hardware?
- unicornhose 1y ago
  Uh no I just rent a box from them.
  - steveklabnik 1y ago
    How are you doing that?
    - unicornhose 1y ago
      Wow, looks like I am not doing that. oxide.host is an entirely different company.
      - steveklabnik 1y ago
        Haha no worries! I was a bit confused, but now I learn about that company! Thanks :)
        deleted 1y ago

zem 1y ago

I'm a fan just because they have such an incredibly good sounding product. like, it has no relevance to me, I'll never use it, but I get a deep sense of satisfaction just reading about how it works.