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Isreal proposed international peacekeeping forces in Gaza, but Hamas has rejected it. If I may quote Izzat al-Rishq, a member of the Hamas political bureau, "W

by rmah 1y ago

Isreal proposed international peacekeeping forces in Gaza, but Hamas has rejected it. If I may quote Izzat al-Rishq, a member of the Hamas political bureau, "We stress our people's rejection of the presence of any non-Palestinian actors on our land." [https://www.anews.com.tr/world/2024/04/02/hamas-says-no-to-international-peacekeeping-force-in-gaza https://www.anews.com.tr/world/2024/04/02/hamas-says-no-to-i...]. They only accept aid organizations.

llm_nerd 1y ago
>Isreal proposed international peacekeeping forces in Gaza This is a bit misleading. Israel proposed that it maintain absolute and total military control of Gaza, but that a "peacekeeping force" from three Arab nations, bizarrely to be controlled by the US, would "secure food distribution". Israel has absolutely zero intention of handing over control of Gaza, and has gone to extraordinary lengths to vilify and delegitimize every international organization at every turn. An actual peacekeeping force as described above would be about keeping Israel in check as much as ensuring Hamas doesn't re-appear.
- zdragnar 1y ago
  > Israel has absolutely zero intention of handing over control of Gaza, The charter for Hamas for years called for the total destruction of Israel. That's been recently removed, but their actions haven't changed. Why would any nation allow such a government to be their neighbor? The best that anyone could hope for would be a North / South Korea or CCP/KMT divide, but those only work because both sides share a common identity.
  - cholantesh 1y ago
    Israeli administration of Gaza preceded Hamas' foundation. Its administration of the West Bank is characterized by regular IDF incursions into its settlements where homes are demolished, residents are kidnapped and tortured without cause, and armed, escorted settlers are let loose to assault the same residents and loot their businesses. Hamas' founders were all born either in settlements that have been forcefully depopulated by Israel or in refugee camps that still exist today because they keep getting filled up by people who lived in those settlements. I imagine most people would be miffed by this set of circumstances.
  - lostlogin 1y ago
    Israel is trying to destroy Gaza and its people - look at any recent photos. There is some equivalence in the aims, and one group has begun to get close - Israel. It’s time for aggressive outside intervention.
    - nradov 1y ago
      None of the countries with the actual capacity for aggressive outside intervention have any interest in doing so. For better or worse it's just not a priority. People in the Israel / Palestine region will have to find a solution to their own problems, or (more likely) just continue the horrifying and pointless cycle of violence.
      - immibis 1y ago
        The countries with capacity for outside intervention are intervening - to support Israel. Without constant outside support, Israel would fall by this time next month. It would not longer be a country.
        nradov 1y ago
        Nah. Israel is a nuclear power. They have a right to exist and won't just quietly disappear. If they feel that they're facing an existential threat then they'll use those weapons. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that it would be the most likely outcome. The current situation is bad for everyone involved but it could get even worse.
        immibis 1y ago
        Gaza is within Israel. Israel can't nuke Gaza without also nuking large parts of Israel.
        nradov 1y ago
        Gaza isn't the existential threat.
  - immibis 1y ago
    The charter for Israel still calls for the total destruction of Palestine...
    - dlubarov 1y ago
      Israel doesn't really have a charter, are you thinking of Likud?
      - dragonwriter 1y ago
        > Israel doesn't really have a charter, It has a series of Basic Laws that serve that function (they are expressly a solution to the failure initially to pass a Constitution and are intended to be compiled once complete into a Constitution), but while some of them are problematic on grounds that touch on the Israel-Palestine conflict, I don't think any of them call for the destruction of Palestine (which isn't to say that most Israeli leaders since Israeli occupied the West Bank and Gaza haven't done something like that, but that's a different issue than the Basic Laws doing it.)
  - tguvot 1y ago
    actually old (original) charter of hamas was never removed or replaced. it's still there.
pyrale 1y ago
> Isreal proposed international peacekeeping forces in Gaza Given the history of Israel with the UNIFIL...
atoav 1y ago
Question: Which miltary body other than any linked to one of the conflict parties did Israel propose to do the peacekeeping? If the answer is "None" then Israel did not in fact propose peacekeeping forces.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Which miltary body other than any linked to one of the conflict parties did Israel propose to do the peacekeeping? Hamas didn’t counter with a preferred peacekeeping composition, they rejected peacekeeping to retain their monopoly on violence (and Gaza’s resources). To the extent there are evils in this story, they’re the leadership of Hamas and Likud.
  - atoav 1y ago
    So your answer is None? I didn't claim Isreal set forth a realistic peace keeping plan, you did. And you failed to bring the receipts. What you say here is the equivalent of Russia proposing to Ukraine that the war could be ended if they install the Russian National Guard as peace keepers in their country and then saying: "But Ukraine didn't make a counterproposal". Yes, because that kind of proposal is an insult to the intelligence of everybody who has to read it. And your point about Hamas means you're waving the flag for one of the war parties here and thus have an entirely untrustworthy position anyways. Let me clarify: If a party to any war proposes a peacekeeping force that is already fighting in the war, it is not a credible peace offer, period. A credible peace offer involves a peace keeping force that is seen as neutral enough by both sides of the conflict.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > If a party to any war proposes a peacekeeping force that is already fighting in the war, it is not a credible peace offer This is fair. My point is Hamas has shown zero interest in an international peacekeeping force in Gaza. A lack of enthusiasm possibly only matched by the nations that would have to provide said force.

by rmah 1y ago

llm_nerd 1y ago

>Isreal proposed international peacekeeping forces in Gaza This is a bit misleading. Israel proposed that it maintain absolute and total military control of Gaza, but that a "peacekeeping force" from three Arab nations, bizarrely to be controlled by the US, would "secure food distribution". Israel has absolutely zero intention of handing over control of Gaza, and has gone to extraordinary lengths to vilify and delegitimize every international organization at every turn. An actual peacekeeping force as described above would be about keeping Israel in check as much as ensuring Hamas doesn't re-appear.

zdragnar 1y ago
> Israel has absolutely zero intention of handing over control of Gaza, The charter for Hamas for years called for the total destruction of Israel. That's been recently removed, but their actions haven't changed. Why would any nation allow such a government to be their neighbor? The best that anyone could hope for would be a North / South Korea or CCP/KMT divide, but those only work because both sides share a common identity.
- cholantesh 1y ago
  Israeli administration of Gaza preceded Hamas' foundation. Its administration of the West Bank is characterized by regular IDF incursions into its settlements where homes are demolished, residents are kidnapped and tortured without cause, and armed, escorted settlers are let loose to assault the same residents and loot their businesses. Hamas' founders were all born either in settlements that have been forcefully depopulated by Israel or in refugee camps that still exist today because they keep getting filled up by people who lived in those settlements. I imagine most people would be miffed by this set of circumstances.
- lostlogin 1y ago
  Israel is trying to destroy Gaza and its people - look at any recent photos. There is some equivalence in the aims, and one group has begun to get close - Israel. It’s time for aggressive outside intervention.
  - nradov 1y ago
    None of the countries with the actual capacity for aggressive outside intervention have any interest in doing so. For better or worse it's just not a priority. People in the Israel / Palestine region will have to find a solution to their own problems, or (more likely) just continue the horrifying and pointless cycle of violence.
    - immibis 1y ago
      The countries with capacity for outside intervention are intervening - to support Israel. Without constant outside support, Israel would fall by this time next month. It would not longer be a country.
      - nradov 1y ago
        Nah. Israel is a nuclear power. They have a right to exist and won't just quietly disappear. If they feel that they're facing an existential threat then they'll use those weapons. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that it would be the most likely outcome. The current situation is bad for everyone involved but it could get even worse.
        immibis 1y ago
        Gaza is within Israel. Israel can't nuke Gaza without also nuking large parts of Israel.
        nradov 1y ago
        Gaza isn't the existential threat.
- immibis 1y ago
  The charter for Israel still calls for the total destruction of Palestine...
  - dlubarov 1y ago
    Israel doesn't really have a charter, are you thinking of Likud?
    - dragonwriter 1y ago
      > Israel doesn't really have a charter, It has a series of Basic Laws that serve that function (they are expressly a solution to the failure initially to pass a Constitution and are intended to be compiled once complete into a Constitution), but while some of them are problematic on grounds that touch on the Israel-Palestine conflict, I don't think any of them call for the destruction of Palestine (which isn't to say that most Israeli leaders since Israeli occupied the West Bank and Gaza haven't done something like that, but that's a different issue than the Basic Laws doing it.)
- tguvot 1y ago
  actually old (original) charter of hamas was never removed or replaced. it's still there.

pyrale 1y ago

> Isreal proposed international peacekeeping forces in Gaza Given the history of Israel with the UNIFIL...

atoav 1y ago

Question: Which miltary body other than any linked to one of the conflict parties did Israel propose to do the peacekeeping? If the answer is "None" then Israel did not in fact propose peacekeeping forces.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Which miltary body other than any linked to one of the conflict parties did Israel propose to do the peacekeeping? Hamas didn’t counter with a preferred peacekeeping composition, they rejected peacekeeping to retain their monopoly on violence (and Gaza’s resources). To the extent there are evils in this story, they’re the leadership of Hamas and Likud.
- atoav 1y ago
  So your answer is None? I didn't claim Isreal set forth a realistic peace keeping plan, you did. And you failed to bring the receipts. What you say here is the equivalent of Russia proposing to Ukraine that the war could be ended if they install the Russian National Guard as peace keepers in their country and then saying: "But Ukraine didn't make a counterproposal". Yes, because that kind of proposal is an insult to the intelligence of everybody who has to read it. And your point about Hamas means you're waving the flag for one of the war parties here and thus have an entirely untrustworthy position anyways. Let me clarify: If a party to any war proposes a peacekeeping force that is already fighting in the war, it is not a credible peace offer, period. A credible peace offer involves a peace keeping force that is seen as neutral enough by both sides of the conflict.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > If a party to any war proposes a peacekeeping force that is already fighting in the war, it is not a credible peace offer This is fair. My point is Hamas has shown zero interest in an international peacekeeping force in Gaza. A lack of enthusiasm possibly only matched by the nations that would have to provide said force.