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A month using XMPP (using Snikket) for every call and chat (2023)
- ColinWright 1y agoSeen here: https://mathstodon.xyz/@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk/114937485114995934 https://mathstodon.xyz/@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk/1149374... Usage continues two years later ...
- riedel 1y agoWhat are the actual security concerns when using OMEMO mentioned in the post? Most criticism I find is on implementations.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- digianarchist 1y agohttps://omemo.top/ https://omemo.top/ Wish there were more library implementations that clients could leverage.
- DoctorOW 1y agoSaw this linked elsewhere: https://soatok.blog/2024/08/04/against-xmppomemo/ https://soatok.blog/2024/08/04/against-xmppomemo/
- xmpp-enjoyer 1y agoFor balance, see OMEMO Author Tim Henkes' response [1] to the blog, which was moderated. This is linked from this blog post [2] where the author explains that they prefer XMPP, because it is not a silo. [1] https://www.moparisthebest.com/tim-henkes-omemo-response.txt https://www.moparisthebest.com/tim-henkes-omemo-response.txt [2] https://www.moparisthebest.com/against-silos-signal/ https://www.moparisthebest.com/against-silos-signal/
- devrandoom 1y agoThat was a good read. The furry blog post read like a smear campaign. Extraordinary unprofessional.
- rpdillon 1y agoThat post, describing why we shouldn't be using a OMEMO, is almost incoherent. It doesn't outline any problem with the implementation at all. Every criticism is a metacriticism of some sort. Very strange.
- wahern 1y ago> Moving to XMPP - using prosody - worked really well for messaging, but the lack of real-time notifications on Sandra’s iPhone was sub-optimal Were they using Monal on the iPhone? I use XMPP (Prosody) with some friends. Conversations.im works really well on Android, including push notifications. But the one iPhone user, using Monal, has said notifications don't work, and I don't know how to debug. The Monal website and commit log suggests they should be working. (macOS desktop Monal works fine for me, but it's using a normal live TCP stream to receive notifications, not cell network push notifications.)
- AceJohnny2 1y agoAIUI (but actual iOS developers can correct me), for Push Notifications to work on iPhones requires the system to route through the Apple-hosted Apple Push Notification (APN) https://developer.apple.com/notifications/ https://developer.apple.com/notifications/ This is fairly at odds with the goal of XMPP, where the device listens to the server. But of course that model doesn't really work when the device is sleeping most of the time (and I don't know how IP or TCP connections are handled in an LTE or 5G world, but I'm sure there's a consideration there). All this to say: iOS is hostile to XMPP.
- sssilver 1y agoAnother way to say it would be: XMPP is hostile to power efficiency.
- zaik 1y agoConversations is one of the most battery efficient IM clients out there despite maintaining it's own TCP connection. This is possible because Conversations can tell the server to shut up unless it's important, which reduces radio usage a lot. This extension (CSI) is quite mature and found on most servers by now.
- vetrom 1y agoIt's not that XMPP is hostile to power efficiency, its that Apple (and Google) gateway power-efficient edge triggering behind vendor-restricted cryptographic feature locks. They have arguably correct reasons for doing this, but it's a false comparison to say that the software is inefficient when its just as efficient that anything else at that privilege level on the phone can do.
- microtonal 1y agoWe were living in the future. Around ~2010 we could use Jabber/XMPP to chat with people on various community services, Google Talk, LiveJournal talk, etc. Besides great Linux clients, macOS had iChat which supported XMPP, etc.
- icedchai 1y agoI briefly worked on an XMPP client around that time. It cemented my opinion that the protocol was an absolute abomination.
- dietrichepp 1y agoCompany I worked at back then used XMPP. There was something that you could paste into the chat that would make all of the Mac clients crash, and to fix it, someone with a different client would have to join the chat and type a lot of comments to flood the history. I am not surprised to hear the protocol is an abomination.
- kentrado 1y agoSeems like a problem with the client rather than the protocol.
- opan 1y agoYeah, there was a similar bug in HexChat and other (pango?) stuff some years back. I remember even though I was using irssi, it could crash my Termite window.
- wink 1y agoKinda, but if there is only a limited subset of clients and everyone is basically on the one default per platform, it simply doesn't help.
- jauntywundrkind 1y agoThat's quite unspecific and unhelpful. Personally I find XMPP much makes sense. Sure it's this weird streaming XML thing, but there's a request/response pattern (IQ) inside that seems fine. I love how nicely it composes: accounts have a tree of nodes they can define for whatever content they want, which is a sensible & flexible base. Then there's pubsub, and ACL capability specs on top of that. Everything stacks relatively sensibly. The past decade has seen some good XMPP Enhancement Protocols (XEP) to create best practices & recommended feature sets. It was such a small jump to create a full "everything app" atop XMPP baseline capabilities: > Libervia [ed: nee Salut-a-Too] is a all-in-one tool to manage all your communications needs: instant messaging, (micro)blogging, file sharing, photo albums, events, forums, tasks, etc. https://libervia.org/ https://libervia.org/ It's unfortunate that the top rated comment is uncontestable blanket desparagement. Can we raise this from a low criticism to something respect-worthy?
- rlpb 1y agoI've been a big XMPP fan, having deployed it at customer sites more than a decade ago, running my own self-hosted service for friends and family, and so forth. I'm disappointed that the experience is still not at feature parity with proprietary solutions. For example, Conversations.im is a great Android client for XMPP, but it still does not support live location. There's so much potential to be better than the proprietary solutions, too, for example with OsmAnd integration (https://codeberg.org/iNPUTmice/Conversations/issues/11 https://codeberg.org/iNPUTmice/Conversations/issues/11).
- zie 1y agoInteresting. I would have never thought of using XMPP to share location info like that. I use Overland[0] and a custom server implementation that lets people I care about see where my phone is(and presumably me). 0: https://overland.p3k.app https://overland.p3k.app
- daneel_w 1y agoDaily user of XMPP as well since over a decade. I still call it Jabber out of habit. Prosody on server, Profanity on desktop (terminal), Monal on mobile.
- johnisgood 1y agoProsody vs. ejabberd?
- daneel_w 1y agoI have no experience with ejabberd. As for Prosody, it does everything I/we want it to do, is very easy to configure and runs incredibly light - the host is a single-core virtual machine running OpenBSD on 256 MiB of RAM, and we've yet to face resource shortages.
- johnisgood 1y agoSounds neat. I may self-host it then on my OpenBSD server with 512 MB RAM. I assume it supports OMEMO and all the modern extensions of XMPP, right?
- nadof 1y agoyes, prosody supports OMEMO. Prosody works well with Conversations or Blabber on android
- johnisgood 1y agoThanks. I use Conversations on Android. Gajim on desktop. :)
- daneel_w 1y agoOMEMO is not a server feature, it's a client feature, but yes OMEMO works with Prosody in the picture. It's mature, modern and actively developed, the full list of extensions supported by Prosody is here: https://prosody.im/doc/xeplist https://prosody.im/doc/xeplist
- haunter 1y agoAm I understanding right that they (two people) only talk with each other? Or at least they only talk with each other through XMPP?
- rdm_blackhole 1y agoI am making notes of this for if/when Chat Control gets the green light from the EU parliament.
- nadof 1y agoAFAIK services such as GMail, Facebook/Instagram Messenger, Skype, Snapchat, iCloud email and X-Box already apply chat control voluntarily: https://www.esafety.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-12/BOSE%20transparency%20report%20Dec%202022.pdf https://www.esafety.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-12/BOSE%...
- rdm_blackhole 1y agoI am aware. I am talking of Chat Control V2, which aims to introduce client side scanning to WhatsApp, Signal and IMessage.
- grodriguez100 1y agoCan’t help reading that as “Skynet” every time.
- nadof 1y ago> Moving to XMPP - using prosody - worked really well for messaging, but the lack of real-time notifications on Sandra’s iPhone was sub-optimal, and the lack of any notifications for incoming XMPP calls on her phone was really undesirable. A note to android users: prosody real time notifications & calls work great combined with the "conversations" app as a client. You see "user is typing", you can transfer files/photo, video. And best of all, you can do audio video calls with adaptive quality (adjusts to your bandwidth) & auto reconnects.
- nadof 1y agoI've been using XMPP since about 5 years for family texting, file/video sharing, and video calling. It works great, and I would highly recommend it. What works for us (all android) is Prosody + Conversations app (or Blabber is a free version). There are a few guides online for how to install & configure the prosody server. It's fairly non-technical. Honestly, it works just as well as whatsapp - except there's actual privacy between users. Family messaging is a great use-case as everyone can be on the same server.
- terminalbraid 1y agoConversations is free if you get it via fdroid. Don't let that stop you from donating for development though.
- rpdillon 1y agoI've been doing the same thing for my family for the last four years and it's been working really well. We're all on Android and using Conversations as well.
- rckt 1y agoI maintained my XMPP account for around 5 years. Talked only to one guy there. In the end I just dumped it. The potential is great, but in reality it's a very niche thing.