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Much of the west is getting older and getting sicker. How unsurprising. What even is the solution? Expand the already massive healthcare sector further? Where
by constantcrying 1y ago
Much of the west is getting older and getting sicker. How unsurprising.
What even is the solution? Expand the already massive healthcare sector further? Where does the money for that come from?
- kubelsmieci 1y agoSolution: preventive health care, promoting a healthy lifestyle from an early age, and healthy eating
- constantcrying 1y agoObesity is currently only getting worse and many of these sicknesses are already irreversible in people. This also does not do anything about ageing
- nemomarx 1y agoLuckily obesity is getting more and more solveable tbh
- m463 1y agoI imagine that means people will face whatever the next problem is (heart disease, or dementia or etc...) but hopefully at a later age?
- nemomarx 1y agoYeah, although some of them are comorbid with obesity so they shouldn't get too much worse? But cancer treatments probably get more common if you're living longer and your heart doesn't get you, etc
- nemomarx 1y agoCuts down on health costs but also increases life span, so you have the issue with the number of elderly citizens vs number of working citizens who can provide care. That needs to be tackled too somehow.
- Analemma_ 1y agoThis is good to do for its own sake, but on a large scale it does not decrease health care costs: it makes people live longer, but they will still ultimately need the kind of end-of-life care where the majority of health care costs come from. Those costs don't go down for healthier people, and it might even increase health care spending on net if it takes people longer to die.
- bigmattystyles 1y agoI know it’s easy to say but you do hear stories of families going to extraordinary lengths for an elderly loved one to give them a couple months of low quality of life. Is it the family trying to feel better or hoping for a miracle, or the patient themselves; I’m sure it’s both, but I can’t help but think if we were more comfortable with death, these really costly situations would go away and suffering would actually be reduced. I know it’s easy say and it sounds like I’m advocating for death, and in a way I am, but we all have to go. If your quality of life is so terrible… I’m also a hypocrite because I think that when it will be my turn or my parents’ and I have to decide, I’ll tell them to do everything possible within their directives.
- b3ing 1y agoThe last thing you think of when your loved one is on the edge is if you can save money for the system
- bigmattystyles 1y agoTotally agree. Just in those cases where death in the next month is inevitable and significant suffering is guaranteed, I guess to me (right now) it’s more about acceptance and mercy.
- nicoburns 1y agoI think most of the increase in healthcare costs is coming from elderly people (because people are living longer). So while otherwise a good thing, I'm not sure that will help this particular problem.
- dragonwriter 1y agoThat definitely increases outcomes and QALY but it only is cost neutral or saves costs if you also more tightly ration low-cost-effectiveness care down the road that ends up usually being near end-of-life, which is where A LOT of current spending is. This is rational on a broad social level but is very difficult of a change to implement.
- MrFots 1y agogood luck -- https://www.npr.org/2025/07/27/nx-s1-5481828/rfk-jr-uspstf-advisory-panel-primary-care https://www.npr.org/2025/07/27/nx-s1-5481828/rfk-jr-uspstf-a...
- esbranson 1y agoIf USPSTF has refused, either intentionally refused or through incompetence, to make a recommendation in its 40 year history that would have an outsize effect on preventive healthcare, then not only good riddance, but kick every single one its members out of academia and pull their licenses. I'm half surprised that National Propaganda didn't lament that the tens of thousands of millions AHRQ has given to academia wasn't enough for improved health outcomes.
- binary132 1y agotoo late for most of the burden
- soco 1y agoMake that a discussion with the local politics. In theory at least, everybody will need healthcare in their lives and more so when aging. And we need a plan for that, not to act surprised (the way some leaders act surprised with gas dependency, or with immigration, or with...). Everything can have solutions, if it's not swept under the rug.
- constantcrying 1y ago>Make that a discussion with the local politics. There is nothing more irrelevant than addressing large scale social issues in local politics. Besides not once in my life have I seen politics improve anything, politics seems to attract the dumbest and most self righteous types of people, who care about nothing but their self image. My time on earth is limited and much too precious to spent it in the company of politicians or just people invested in politics. No Thanks!
- soco 1y agoCorrect me please if I'm wrong but do you maybe mean with that "let's do nothing and just die"? That I cannot accept, so what else?
- constantcrying 1y agoFirstly, the success rate of politics appears to be precisely zero. Secondly, if I have the choice between politics and death, death is the easy winner.
- bboygravity 1y agoWhat's the solution to the symptoms of low interest rates, low fertility rates and declining productivity?
- constantcrying 1y agoLow interest rates are trivially solvable. Declining productivity seems entirely made up.
- taeric 1y agoMy answer is more sympathy across the board. People are going to make mistakes. People are going to have a hard time. Both lead to more mistakes. Neither are reasons to give up. On the money angle, I'm on board with the abundance crowd that I internalize as "be willing to spend money." Especially since most value is generated, and not necessarily discovered.
- tharmas 1y agoThe main problem with Healthcare when it comes to costs is that it is to a certain extent labour intensive, is it not? This makes it difficult to reduce costs as wages rise over time.
- blueflow 1y agoThe narrative is wrong - the wages are low while the working times are exhausting. Half of each trainee's leave each year, while the nurses that can actually endure this shit are going into pension in the next 10 years. And the money is spent on SAP systems who further take time from the already overworked nurses, because they now have to spent a ton of time entering data into a computer with no benefits. Its not people getting sicker, its mismanagement. Source: Two nurses in family
- rwyinuse 1y agoYeah, also over here in Finland the amount of money our public sector spends on stuff like Microsoft licenses is insane. Then there's lots of other craziness, like buying a very expensive and totally unsuitable American healthcare management system from Epic, and then spending lots of money on license fees and customizing it for local purposes (the end result also sucks, and is universally hated by healthcare staff). I'm not sure whether it's a result incompetence, corruption or both, but massive amount of money is wasted on IT solutions that could be implemented more cheaply in-house, or at least by European companies.
- vintermann 1y agoYes, I remember a post on the daily WTF ten years ago, about a terrible programming language called MUMPS. Real programming horror story. That's Epic. That's the thing our highly paid acquisition experts demanded our health care systems buy. They are MUMPS.
- wvenable 1y agoWe have the money. Wealth is everywhere but as a society it's neither evenly distributed nor compassionately allocated. But that is human nature.
- constantcrying 1y agoAbsolutely. Especially the old think that they deserve unlimited funding, even when they have failed totally at creating the conditions which would make that funding possible and now their costs are spread over an ever declining population of young people.
- wvenable 1y agoModern society is based on a pyramid scheme and the cancer of infinite growth. We will burn this planet to the ground to ensure that certain classes of people never lose.
- FigurativeVoid 1y agoI have thought that we should make entering the medical professions much easier. In order to become a nurse, you usually need a 4 year degree. This has two issues: 1. This is way to much time in the classroom. Much of that coursework simply isn't necessary. 2. You have people that would be good nurses piking other programs because they can't get passing marks in classes that are irrelevant to day to day nursing. Binding what are essentially professional programs to the academy is a mistake. Don't get me wrong, I love the academy. But we need nurses.
- nicoburns 1y agoThat doesn't help if we don't have money to hire qualified nurses.
- the-grump 1y agoLarger supply leads to lower prices, if demand stays flat.
- CoastalCoder 1y agoIf nurses had lower up-front costs for their own training, I could imagine that allowing lower wages without them being worse off financially. If we hand-wave away a lot of other market dynamics, I'm guessing.
- rectang 1y agoCNAs (Certified Nursing Assistants) have low up-front training costs, but don't make a lot of money: an average of $19/hr [1]. So at least some of the less skilled work is being done with economic efficiency. [1] https://nursa.com/salary/cna https://nursa.com/salary/cna
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y agoAt least in the US, nursing does not require a 4 year degree. You can become an RN with an associates degree. A 2 year nursing degree has one of the highest returns on investment of any training program (especially if you go to community college). Ivy Tech CC in Indiana and WGU both have nursing programs with great returns. Keep in mind, nursing is not an easy path and has a super high burnout rate. It's a tough and demanding job. Other professions with a great return on training are HVAC, electrician, plumber, robotics/logic systems (CAM, conveyors, etc.). These are especially high paying if you focus on commercial and industrial.
- MrFots 1y agoSend everyone older than 30 to Carousel.
- adgjlsfhk1 1y agoone answer is raising retirement ages.