8 ms·

I think the point of organic food it isn't to get more (good) stuff, it's to get less (bad) stuff. The fact that they have lower amounts of pesticides, chemica

I think the point of organic food it isn't to get more (good) stuff, it's to get less (bad) stuff. The fact that they have lower amounts of pesticides, chemicals and antibiotic-resistant bacteria makes organic food healthier (as in doesn't make your health worst).

VMG 14y ago
I'd estimate that the amount of bacteria on organic food is higher, not lower due to the lack of said pesticides and using dung as fertilizer. See the 2011 E. Coli outbreak in Germany that killed 50 people, caused by organic sprout: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Germany_E._coli_O104:H4_outbreak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Germany_E._coli_O104:H4_ou...
- sprocket 14y ago
  Just because food is grown in a non-organic/commercial system, doesn't necessarily mean it's grown without using manure as a fertilizer. There have been many cases of non-organic products being contaminated with E.Coli as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_North_American_E._coli_O157:H7_outbreaks Pesticides also don't necessarily inhibit bacterial growth (though granted, they probably don't help it), so I don't buy into the assertion that their application is somehow sanitizing your food.
  - Turing_Machine 14y ago
    It's not that pesticides sanitize the food. It's that chemical fertilizers don't potentially introduce disease organisms into the field the way that manure does.
    - ars 14y ago
      Properly processed manure does not do that. Compost it first at a high temperature, then mix it into the soil over the winter. You don't just take fresh manure that throw it on the field.
- ars 14y ago
  Pesticides have no effect whatsoever on bacteria. And dung from plant fed animals is harmless. And all bacteria is not equal, so it's doesn't matter how much there is - it matters what kind. Cheese is just full of bacteria, so are pickles, and yogurt. Food grown using antibiotics will have more of the dangerous resistant kind, rather than the beneficial kind. With the sprouts it was not the organic that was the issue - it's simply that it's sprouts. Sprouts are wet, not cooked, and not washed. It's a perfect environment for bacteria if you are not careful. I don't think non-organic sprouts even exists - they grow in less than a week, why would you put pesticides on it?
  - Turing_Machine 14y ago
    "And dung from plant fed animals is harmless." Nonsense. Animal dung can carry everything from tapeworms to salmonella to E. coli. Update: added link. http://umaine.edu/publications/2510e/ http://umaine.edu/publications/2510e/
    - encoderer 14y ago
      What I think the guy is getting at is a holistic view here. That the manure from animals raised in healthy conditions-- meaning low density, no antibiotics, natural diet--is a safe and ecologically sound fertilizer. It is, after-all, how farming developed over thousands of years. Sorry if that sounds too Michael Pollan for you but I think it passes as both common sense and historically accurate.
      - kalleboo 14y ago
        > It is, after-all, how farming developed over thousands of years You may be right about it being safe, but I'd be careful about using this logic. Over "thousands of years", we had a life expectancy at birth of 30 years, indicating that among other things the food supply may not have been very safe.
        Turing_Machine 14y ago
        Right. Not to mention the ever-present fear of famine. Going back to low-tech, low-energy, localized production is a recipe for the return of large-scale famine.
- sitkack 14y ago
  The operative phrase is "antibiotic-resistant bacteria", bacteria is around us all the time, this is in-escapable, the antibiotic-resistant variety is what is bad.

VMG 14y ago

I'd estimate that the amount of bacteria on organic food is higher, not lower due to the lack of said pesticides and using dung as fertilizer. See the 2011 E. Coli outbreak in Germany that killed 50 people, caused by organic sprout: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Germany_E._coli_O104:H4_outbreak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Germany_E._coli_O104:H4_ou...

sprocket 14y ago
Just because food is grown in a non-organic/commercial system, doesn't necessarily mean it's grown without using manure as a fertilizer. There have been many cases of non-organic products being contaminated with E.Coli as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_North_American_E._coli_O157:H7_outbreaks Pesticides also don't necessarily inhibit bacterial growth (though granted, they probably don't help it), so I don't buy into the assertion that their application is somehow sanitizing your food.
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  It's not that pesticides sanitize the food. It's that chemical fertilizers don't potentially introduce disease organisms into the field the way that manure does.
  - ars 14y ago
    Properly processed manure does not do that. Compost it first at a high temperature, then mix it into the soil over the winter. You don't just take fresh manure that throw it on the field.
ars 14y ago
Pesticides have no effect whatsoever on bacteria. And dung from plant fed animals is harmless. And all bacteria is not equal, so it's doesn't matter how much there is - it matters what kind. Cheese is just full of bacteria, so are pickles, and yogurt. Food grown using antibiotics will have more of the dangerous resistant kind, rather than the beneficial kind. With the sprouts it was not the organic that was the issue - it's simply that it's sprouts. Sprouts are wet, not cooked, and not washed. It's a perfect environment for bacteria if you are not careful. I don't think non-organic sprouts even exists - they grow in less than a week, why would you put pesticides on it?
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  "And dung from plant fed animals is harmless." Nonsense. Animal dung can carry everything from tapeworms to salmonella to E. coli. Update: added link. http://umaine.edu/publications/2510e/ http://umaine.edu/publications/2510e/
  - encoderer 14y ago
    What I think the guy is getting at is a holistic view here. That the manure from animals raised in healthy conditions-- meaning low density, no antibiotics, natural diet--is a safe and ecologically sound fertilizer. It is, after-all, how farming developed over thousands of years. Sorry if that sounds too Michael Pollan for you but I think it passes as both common sense and historically accurate.
    - kalleboo 14y ago
      > It is, after-all, how farming developed over thousands of years You may be right about it being safe, but I'd be careful about using this logic. Over "thousands of years", we had a life expectancy at birth of 30 years, indicating that among other things the food supply may not have been very safe.
      - Turing_Machine 14y ago
        Right. Not to mention the ever-present fear of famine. Going back to low-tech, low-energy, localized production is a recipe for the return of large-scale famine.
sitkack 14y ago
The operative phrase is "antibiotic-resistant bacteria", bacteria is around us all the time, this is in-escapable, the antibiotic-resistant variety is what is bad.