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"the EU wants to scan your messages" implies its every member state and not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die. The EU has always be

"the EU wants to scan your messages" implies its every member state and not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die. The EU has always been 90 days from passing mass surveliance for the last decade. Until member states start actually backing this these articles are nothing but click bait.

clarionbell 1y ago
They haven't passed this yet, because every time people make noise and write their representatives. It's "clickbait" like this that makes any sort of privacy still possible.
- westpfelia 1y ago
  Sure, but this is the same thing as saying "America is going to paint all birds orange" just because one person in the Iowa General House Assembly said we should do it. Awareness is good but there is a fine line between awareness of specific politicians that suck and just misrepresenting the facts.
  - jb1991 1y ago
    OK, I’ll bite. What reason would there be to paint every bird orange?
    - squigz 1y ago
      Easier hunting.
    - thyristan 1y ago
      Making the surveilance drones (they aren't really birds) more obvious and more conforming to the prison states of america branding. ;)
    - westpfelia 1y ago
      There isnt. Its a crazy example of what is happening here. To use a real world example take this "EU deal" that Trump did. Everyone is talking like its already taken effect. But the reality is the EU just handshake agreed to this, but at the end of the day all of the member states have to rattify it. And if states dont or if there are arguements made the whole thing gets tossed. I just wish people would say that they dont understand how the EU works. At some point some Dutch mayor is going to say that the inernet should be free, and "tech journalists" are going to write articles talking about how all EU citizens will have Fibre cables connected to them at all times.
      - richrichardsson 1y ago
        > I just wish people would say that they dont understand how the EU works. Just look at the Brexit vote for an example of how little people understand the EU and how it works.
      - inglor_cz 1y ago
        You are spreading some serious disinformation about how the EU works. Once such EU-wide regulations are fully passed (incl. the EP), the countries have to implement them in their law. Sure, they can drag their feet, or there actually might be a real showdown, for example, if the German Constitutional Court says that this is against the Grundgesetz and that it does not recognize supremacy of EU law over itself / the German Constitution. If the same happens in Poland, there will be extra drama added. But at the same time, at least half of the EU, countries with negligible tech sector, will happily pass that legislation without any significant friction, because a) think of the children, b) monitoring opposition and dissent, yay!, c) we have to, because Brussels said so, d) the lawmakers know shit about encryption and tech and they will be exempt from monitoring anyway, so encryption is something that is only used by criminals and terrorists and if you have nothing to hide etc. etc. At which point you have the surveillance infrastructure installed and in operation across half the continent, and with elections changing governments, it will spread. Our main protection used to be that small countries like Slovenia or Malta don't have the weight to push Apple or Google to introduce deliberate holes in their software. If the European Commission joins the push, that is a completely different pressure.
      - 1y ago
  - xinayder 1y ago
    What is misrepresented? It's not "only Denmark". There are just a handful of countries in the EU opposing Chat Control, not because they care about privacy.
max_ 1y ago
Promoting awareness of an upcoming scam is good. It keeps us aware of how stupid the powers that be are.
- rvnx 1y ago
  Normalizing it and saying it is a mundane topic 30 years is actually helping these powers to install it, like getting tired over time and ending just accepting it. The reaction should be much stronger from the tech companies but the tech companies are actually supporters of it, just so they can continue hoarding money while violating other laws. -> Discord/Google/Meta/etc are already scanning the private chats for pictures, and they didn't wait for a law. To fix pedophiles, supporters of terrorism and gang members, there is a more radical solution: fund justice and police so dangerous people can be put in jail (or kill them if that's something you think is right). Once this is done, there is no need anymore to monitor conversations outside of current scope. Though, justice is not fair in practice, so there will be collateral innocent victims (like with privacy invasion) :/
  - freilanzer 1y ago
    So, let's not talk about it, so that people are informed.
ekianjo 1y ago
it only needs to pass once. if you keep trying it will.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  "You need to be lucky every time to stop us, but we only need to be lucky once"
  - grues-dinner 1y ago
    Ironic that this was said by the IRA to the Conservatives in the UK, after they narrowly missed bombing Thatcher. Maybe they learned from it, since that strategy is how they eventually got the OSA pushed through.
- andrepd 1y ago
  Exactly. The European """Parliament""" does not have the power to propose new laws, so if it passes once, it cannot repeal it of its own initiative. So much for democracy.
kubb 1y ago
People should learn about crying wolf, but they never do.
- eitland 1y ago
  Crying wolf implies there is no wolf. Here the wolf is clearly visible.
  - kubb 1y ago
    The wolf are the nefarious powers trying to read your DMs. When they really come, people won’t bother reading the news.
  - bryanrasmussen 1y ago
    crying wolf implies there is a wolf, but is not actually a danger at the moment, this is how the boy who cries wolf ends up getting eaten at the end.
inglor_cz 1y ago
"not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die" Not true. The truth is that Chat Control has returned several times already and the majority of the EU states were actually always for, but a blocking minority has been reached each time - barely so. Worryingly, one of the blocking minority countries used to be Germany, where privacy-minded smaller parties (Greens, FDP) are no longer in government. The new government hasn't declared its position yet. If it switches to yes, then the remnants of our privacy are kaput just like that, and the only hope will be in the ECHR, or possibly (sigh) in Trump's tech bros angrily vetoing it from abroad. So, no one freak from Denmark, but a concerted, repeated effort. There is an even worse set of measures in the phase of preparation, ProtectEU, which would mandate backdoors in everything under the pain of prison for vendors, introduce mandatory data retention and ban non-logging VPNs. Fuck, I don't want to live in a China with a blue flag instead of red. This is absolutely dystopian. Don't downplay the danger. Don't spread disinformation. This isn't a random shot from a random weirdo in Denmark. This is a seriously driven EU-wide attempt to destroy meaningful encryption with a lot of proponents and backers. And the current EC chair, Ursula von der Leyen, has a history of promoting such measures, that is why Germans call her Zensursula.
- squigz 1y ago
  Can you link to some info on what countries voted for or against previous attempts at this?
  - inglor_cz 1y ago
    This guy has been doing a lot of lifting on the fight against Chat Control: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/ Take a look across his page and his social network media, he had nice maps for each round, so hopefully they are still there.
    - tremon 1y ago
      Why not link directly to his Chat Control dossier? https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/
ManBeardPc 1y ago
There are constant attempts to undermine our rights. Every state has their political figures that try to push things like that and they would have succeeded (more) if there wasn't so much public backlash. They continue to try though. What you are describing is a good example of the preparedness paradox.
FerretFred 1y ago
I'm sure this is what they said about the UK Inline Safety Act (2023) but guess what, it's here, and live.
- emptysongglass 1y ago
  And it's a slippery slope. The UK already damned itself with the Investigatory Powers Act of 2016 that allowed for Technical Capability Notices to be served in secret to any organization they desired to backdoor.
- raverbashing 1y ago
  Wow I didn't know the UK cared so much about inline functions /s Do you know what's even funnier with the UK? Parliament has most of the power
  - FerretFred 1y ago
    Bl*dy autocorrect! Ironically, my commandline skills may yet save me :)
  - harvey9 1y ago
    No, that law was about inline roller skates safety. Knee pads and crash helmets.
concinds 1y ago
In previous EU presidencies it's only been defeated by a slim margin, in part thanks to grassroots pressure. The attitude of the governments in favor of it has been: "whatever, we'll keep trying and we'll get it eventually". So getting upset that people talk about it when it gets tabled once again is illogical and unjustifiable.
- soco 1y ago
  I'm confused now: is now the EU the baddie or the governments? Because these are two different entities - and not at least, also "the EU" is a group of government representatives. So folks if you're in the EU and don't like something the EU does - you do have levers, go vote, campaign, do something to move your own folks to do something on the EU level. And if you're in the US maybe better check your own backyard, I think it's on fire.
  - hcfman 1y ago
    Unfortunately the EU is far from democratic. The people making these decisions are allowed to be anonymous as well.
    - Roark66 1y ago
      Not quite, the people making these decisions are all in EU commission and they are there because they were submitted by their national parties. Also there is the EU parliament that contains people that also belong to national parties. If they look like they support a very unpopular decision a big public backlash can definitely make them reconsider. Depending on how secure they are in the national politics. For example why do you think Denmark is submitting this now? Because the somewhat right wing gov in Poland that vetoed it last time is no longer in power. Instead Mr Europe (Tusk) is the prime minister. If EU beurocracy was embodied in a person it would be him. He was the president of the commission. He was the vice-leader of the EU People's Party - the biggest party in the EU parliament. He had his first political party funded by German SPD in cash... He also lost last parliamentary election in Poland, but still came out on top by making a coalition with three smaller parties (some say one was made exactly for that purpose few years ago). He will for sure do everything in his power to have this passed. But his government is a minority one, and at least two of these three coalition parties are mainly supported by young people from large cities. And those were the people that undermined it last time by demonstrating (believe it or not the previous mildly right wing gov was not entirely opposed to having more control over people, but they had to quickly change their mind and veto it after mass demonstrations). So I'm hoping there is no chance in hell it'll pass. Also, if it did, there is no chance it will be signed into the law by the current president or not be deemed unconstitutional by the constitutional Court... The EU and Tusk have claimed the court is "illegitimate" for years, but that is a long story. So in short, pushing this issue despite strong opposition definitely has a potential to blow up Polish politics. No PM leading a minority gov would do something like this intentionally while his party is loosing popular support every month.
HPsquared 1y ago
It's a stochastic process with a ratchet. Eventually it'll pass in a moment of temporary fervour.
- ozgrakkurt 1y ago
  Curious if there is any push on the other direction
  - throw_a_grenade 1y ago
    European courts, of course: ECJ (so hated by UK), ECHR, and a handful of others judiciary and non-judiciary bodies.
- sunshine-o 1y ago
  It is a bit like asking a girl to show you her private parts for years until she has a moment of weakness. That would make you a real creep. The EU parliament is fake, and the unelected commission has become a pathetic clown show. Their latest VP addition, Antonio Costa, had to be removed from office in Portugal because he was too corrupt. But good enough for leadership of the EU commission. They had a violent rhetoric, prolonged artificially to this day the Ukraine war and watched the population being slaughtered without sending any troops. So instead of loosing a few territory, the Ukrainian population is now dead demographically. If you prolong enough a war and the population is wreaked, the war is lost. This is what happened in WWI. Just in the last few days they managed to be humiliated by both the US and China. China went so far to park them in a bus, arrive with no welcoming and have a walk of shame with in silence on a faded carpet. The EU was about democracy, peace and prosperity. Today it is is pursuing the opposite objectives. Downvote me if you want, I care more about staying alive than any internet karma points.
EtienneK 1y ago
The day we stop making noise is the day they will pass this.
- pieter_mj 1y ago
  This time it will pass while we're making noise. I've done so for a long time, now it's different.
emptysongglass 1y ago
It's not clickbait. Many member states do support this. Much of the disagreement is on just how rights-violating the scanning should be. The situation here in Denmark is dire: nobody in the Danish media reports on it, so everybody just shrugs. I've gone out of my way to educate my coworkers and most are unaware many members of our parliament want this. The number of parties that support it outnumber those who don't. Writing to our representatives is met with silence. Everyone looking to Denmark as a model state should beware what happens when you have a population with such high trust in its government: the roots of autocracy are allowed to grow unfettered.
- hollowonepl 1y ago
  The way article is formulated little bit as clickbait. Title tries to scare while content says it's just a topic being reintroduced. If anybody knows EU laws and is aware that to introduce such change all states need to agree... then I just wish DK good luck until it's anyhow confirmed at _all_ not many states do support this. I come from different EU state and I first time hear this is big topic, seems then it's not such a big topic outside Denmark maybe?
- brabel 1y ago
  > Everyone looking to Denmark as a model state should beware what happens when you have a population with such high trust in its government: the roots of autocracy are allowed to grow unfettered. Denmark is currently one of the nicest places you can find in the world. If that’s what happens when you trust the government then sign me up! PS. I know the situation can quickly deteriorate if you’re not constantly monitoring what the government does and agree with OP on that. Just thought it was incredibly naive to try to make the point that this can lead to an autocracy while showing one of the most well functioning democracies in the world. The USA seems like a much better example, and even then compared to most countries in the world, as you can see by the amount of people trying to move there, it’s still a pretty damn nice place to go.
  - BSDobelix 1y ago
    >If that’s what happens when you trust the government then sign me up! Like that? https://cphpost.dk/2024-05-05/news/climate/danish-companies-breach-eu-law-dump-toxic-waste-into-sea-environment-ministry-waves-it-through/ https://cphpost.dk/2024-05-05/news/climate/danish-companies-... >>Danish companies breach EU law, dump toxic waste into sea – Environment Ministry waves it through Or that? https://eos.org/thelandslideblog/nordic-waste-1 https://eos.org/thelandslideblog/nordic-waste-1 >>The Nordic Waste landslide scandal in Denmark Maybe how about that? (50 years ago) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K--KsfrEhPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K--KsfrEhPI >>How Denmark forced young women in Greenland to get IUDs
pluto_modadic 1y ago
same logic as "fixing the clocks wasn't that big of a problem, the world didn't set on fire", well yeah because we warned you and fixed it. This is also the logic behind the no-win scenario of IT/security budgets: things are working: why do we pay so much for IT/security or XYZ tool, we don't need it. things are on fire: we pay so much money for IT/security or XYZ tool and it didn't help us
RealCodingOtaku 1y ago
People said the same thing about the UKs Online Safety Act when it was proposed. If these articles do not warn us to take action and spread more awareness on what's going on, we would just be stepping closer to the dystopian future faster.
sim7c00 1y ago
they never really needed it because their allies already got all the data but with UK out of the EU and US proving less reliable / more volatile ally its more important for them to have their own source of intel. though, because lawful intercept is also a thing in EU, its stupid to assume they do not already have access if they want it. despite not having 'dragnet' surveillance , they have effective and deep targeted surveillance and laws that allow them to do that fairly freely.... (most countries are more strict with their own citizens, but then its handy to have allies to do it for u -_-... wonderful world!)
constantcrying 1y ago
>Until member states start actually backing this these articles are nothing but click bait. As the article states "According to the former MEP for the German Pirate Party, Patrick Breyer, Denmark crucially needs to manage to convince Germany of its proposed text. The new government has not yet taken a position at the time of writing." And since the current German government is bound to take the most idiotic and destructive path it is basically assured.
pieter_mj 1y ago
This time it is happening. Global geopolitical forces are coalescing.

clarionbell 1y ago

They haven't passed this yet, because every time people make noise and write their representatives. It's "clickbait" like this that makes any sort of privacy still possible.

westpfelia 1y ago
Sure, but this is the same thing as saying "America is going to paint all birds orange" just because one person in the Iowa General House Assembly said we should do it. Awareness is good but there is a fine line between awareness of specific politicians that suck and just misrepresenting the facts.
- jb1991 1y ago
  OK, I’ll bite. What reason would there be to paint every bird orange?
  - squigz 1y ago
    Easier hunting.
  - thyristan 1y ago
    Making the surveilance drones (they aren't really birds) more obvious and more conforming to the prison states of america branding. ;)
  - westpfelia 1y ago
    There isnt. Its a crazy example of what is happening here. To use a real world example take this "EU deal" that Trump did. Everyone is talking like its already taken effect. But the reality is the EU just handshake agreed to this, but at the end of the day all of the member states have to rattify it. And if states dont or if there are arguements made the whole thing gets tossed. I just wish people would say that they dont understand how the EU works. At some point some Dutch mayor is going to say that the inernet should be free, and "tech journalists" are going to write articles talking about how all EU citizens will have Fibre cables connected to them at all times.
    - richrichardsson 1y ago
      > I just wish people would say that they dont understand how the EU works. Just look at the Brexit vote for an example of how little people understand the EU and how it works.
    - inglor_cz 1y ago
      You are spreading some serious disinformation about how the EU works. Once such EU-wide regulations are fully passed (incl. the EP), the countries have to implement them in their law. Sure, they can drag their feet, or there actually might be a real showdown, for example, if the German Constitutional Court says that this is against the Grundgesetz and that it does not recognize supremacy of EU law over itself / the German Constitution. If the same happens in Poland, there will be extra drama added. But at the same time, at least half of the EU, countries with negligible tech sector, will happily pass that legislation without any significant friction, because a) think of the children, b) monitoring opposition and dissent, yay!, c) we have to, because Brussels said so, d) the lawmakers know shit about encryption and tech and they will be exempt from monitoring anyway, so encryption is something that is only used by criminals and terrorists and if you have nothing to hide etc. etc. At which point you have the surveillance infrastructure installed and in operation across half the continent, and with elections changing governments, it will spread. Our main protection used to be that small countries like Slovenia or Malta don't have the weight to push Apple or Google to introduce deliberate holes in their software. If the European Commission joins the push, that is a completely different pressure.
    - 1y ago
- xinayder 1y ago
  What is misrepresented? It's not "only Denmark". There are just a handful of countries in the EU opposing Chat Control, not because they care about privacy.

max_ 1y ago

Promoting awareness of an upcoming scam is good. It keeps us aware of how stupid the powers that be are.

rvnx 1y ago
Normalizing it and saying it is a mundane topic 30 years is actually helping these powers to install it, like getting tired over time and ending just accepting it. The reaction should be much stronger from the tech companies but the tech companies are actually supporters of it, just so they can continue hoarding money while violating other laws. -> Discord/Google/Meta/etc are already scanning the private chats for pictures, and they didn't wait for a law. To fix pedophiles, supporters of terrorism and gang members, there is a more radical solution: fund justice and police so dangerous people can be put in jail (or kill them if that's something you think is right). Once this is done, there is no need anymore to monitor conversations outside of current scope. Though, justice is not fair in practice, so there will be collateral innocent victims (like with privacy invasion) :/
- freilanzer 1y ago
  So, let's not talk about it, so that people are informed.

ekianjo 1y ago

it only needs to pass once. if you keep trying it will.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
"You need to be lucky every time to stop us, but we only need to be lucky once"
- grues-dinner 1y ago
  Ironic that this was said by the IRA to the Conservatives in the UK, after they narrowly missed bombing Thatcher. Maybe they learned from it, since that strategy is how they eventually got the OSA pushed through.
andrepd 1y ago
Exactly. The European """Parliament""" does not have the power to propose new laws, so if it passes once, it cannot repeal it of its own initiative. So much for democracy.

kubb 1y ago

People should learn about crying wolf, but they never do.

eitland 1y ago
Crying wolf implies there is no wolf. Here the wolf is clearly visible.
- kubb 1y ago
  The wolf are the nefarious powers trying to read your DMs. When they really come, people won’t bother reading the news.
- bryanrasmussen 1y ago
  crying wolf implies there is a wolf, but is not actually a danger at the moment, this is how the boy who cries wolf ends up getting eaten at the end.

inglor_cz 1y ago

"not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die" Not true. The truth is that Chat Control has returned several times already and the majority of the EU states were actually always for, but a blocking minority has been reached each time - barely so. Worryingly, one of the blocking minority countries used to be Germany, where privacy-minded smaller parties (Greens, FDP) are no longer in government. The new government hasn't declared its position yet. If it switches to yes, then the remnants of our privacy are kaput just like that, and the only hope will be in the ECHR, or possibly (sigh) in Trump's tech bros angrily vetoing it from abroad. So, no one freak from Denmark, but a concerted, repeated effort. There is an even worse set of measures in the phase of preparation, ProtectEU, which would mandate backdoors in everything under the pain of prison for vendors, introduce mandatory data retention and ban non-logging VPNs. Fuck, I don't want to live in a China with a blue flag instead of red. This is absolutely dystopian. Don't downplay the danger. Don't spread disinformation. This isn't a random shot from a random weirdo in Denmark. This is a seriously driven EU-wide attempt to destroy meaningful encryption with a lot of proponents and backers. And the current EC chair, Ursula von der Leyen, has a history of promoting such measures, that is why Germans call her Zensursula.

squigz 1y ago
Can you link to some info on what countries voted for or against previous attempts at this?
- inglor_cz 1y ago
  This guy has been doing a lot of lifting on the fight against Chat Control: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/ Take a look across his page and his social network media, he had nice maps for each round, so hopefully they are still there.
  - tremon 1y ago
    Why not link directly to his Chat Control dossier? https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/

ManBeardPc 1y ago

There are constant attempts to undermine our rights. Every state has their political figures that try to push things like that and they would have succeeded (more) if there wasn't so much public backlash. They continue to try though. What you are describing is a good example of the preparedness paradox.

FerretFred 1y ago

I'm sure this is what they said about the UK Inline Safety Act (2023) but guess what, it's here, and live.

emptysongglass 1y ago
And it's a slippery slope. The UK already damned itself with the Investigatory Powers Act of 2016 that allowed for Technical Capability Notices to be served in secret to any organization they desired to backdoor.
raverbashing 1y ago
Wow I didn't know the UK cared so much about inline functions /s Do you know what's even funnier with the UK? Parliament has most of the power
- FerretFred 1y ago
  Bl*dy autocorrect! Ironically, my commandline skills may yet save me :)
- harvey9 1y ago
  No, that law was about inline roller skates safety. Knee pads and crash helmets.

concinds 1y ago

In previous EU presidencies it's only been defeated by a slim margin, in part thanks to grassroots pressure. The attitude of the governments in favor of it has been: "whatever, we'll keep trying and we'll get it eventually". So getting upset that people talk about it when it gets tabled once again is illogical and unjustifiable.

soco 1y ago
I'm confused now: is now the EU the baddie or the governments? Because these are two different entities - and not at least, also "the EU" is a group of government representatives. So folks if you're in the EU and don't like something the EU does - you do have levers, go vote, campaign, do something to move your own folks to do something on the EU level. And if you're in the US maybe better check your own backyard, I think it's on fire.
- hcfman 1y ago
  Unfortunately the EU is far from democratic. The people making these decisions are allowed to be anonymous as well.
  - Roark66 1y ago
    Not quite, the people making these decisions are all in EU commission and they are there because they were submitted by their national parties. Also there is the EU parliament that contains people that also belong to national parties. If they look like they support a very unpopular decision a big public backlash can definitely make them reconsider. Depending on how secure they are in the national politics. For example why do you think Denmark is submitting this now? Because the somewhat right wing gov in Poland that vetoed it last time is no longer in power. Instead Mr Europe (Tusk) is the prime minister. If EU beurocracy was embodied in a person it would be him. He was the president of the commission. He was the vice-leader of the EU People's Party - the biggest party in the EU parliament. He had his first political party funded by German SPD in cash... He also lost last parliamentary election in Poland, but still came out on top by making a coalition with three smaller parties (some say one was made exactly for that purpose few years ago). He will for sure do everything in his power to have this passed. But his government is a minority one, and at least two of these three coalition parties are mainly supported by young people from large cities. And those were the people that undermined it last time by demonstrating (believe it or not the previous mildly right wing gov was not entirely opposed to having more control over people, but they had to quickly change their mind and veto it after mass demonstrations). So I'm hoping there is no chance in hell it'll pass. Also, if it did, there is no chance it will be signed into the law by the current president or not be deemed unconstitutional by the constitutional Court... The EU and Tusk have claimed the court is "illegitimate" for years, but that is a long story. So in short, pushing this issue despite strong opposition definitely has a potential to blow up Polish politics. No PM leading a minority gov would do something like this intentionally while his party is loosing popular support every month.

HPsquared 1y ago

It's a stochastic process with a ratchet. Eventually it'll pass in a moment of temporary fervour.

ozgrakkurt 1y ago
Curious if there is any push on the other direction
- throw_a_grenade 1y ago
  European courts, of course: ECJ (so hated by UK), ECHR, and a handful of others judiciary and non-judiciary bodies.
sunshine-o 1y ago
It is a bit like asking a girl to show you her private parts for years until she has a moment of weakness. That would make you a real creep. The EU parliament is fake, and the unelected commission has become a pathetic clown show. Their latest VP addition, Antonio Costa, had to be removed from office in Portugal because he was too corrupt. But good enough for leadership of the EU commission. They had a violent rhetoric, prolonged artificially to this day the Ukraine war and watched the population being slaughtered without sending any troops. So instead of loosing a few territory, the Ukrainian population is now dead demographically. If you prolong enough a war and the population is wreaked, the war is lost. This is what happened in WWI. Just in the last few days they managed to be humiliated by both the US and China. China went so far to park them in a bus, arrive with no welcoming and have a walk of shame with in silence on a faded carpet. The EU was about democracy, peace and prosperity. Today it is is pursuing the opposite objectives. Downvote me if you want, I care more about staying alive than any internet karma points.

EtienneK 1y ago

The day we stop making noise is the day they will pass this.

pieter_mj 1y ago
This time it will pass while we're making noise. I've done so for a long time, now it's different.

emptysongglass 1y ago

It's not clickbait. Many member states do support this. Much of the disagreement is on just how rights-violating the scanning should be. The situation here in Denmark is dire: nobody in the Danish media reports on it, so everybody just shrugs. I've gone out of my way to educate my coworkers and most are unaware many members of our parliament want this. The number of parties that support it outnumber those who don't. Writing to our representatives is met with silence. Everyone looking to Denmark as a model state should beware what happens when you have a population with such high trust in its government: the roots of autocracy are allowed to grow unfettered.

hollowonepl 1y ago
The way article is formulated little bit as clickbait. Title tries to scare while content says it's just a topic being reintroduced. If anybody knows EU laws and is aware that to introduce such change all states need to agree... then I just wish DK good luck until it's anyhow confirmed at _all_ not many states do support this. I come from different EU state and I first time hear this is big topic, seems then it's not such a big topic outside Denmark maybe?
brabel 1y ago
> Everyone looking to Denmark as a model state should beware what happens when you have a population with such high trust in its government: the roots of autocracy are allowed to grow unfettered. Denmark is currently one of the nicest places you can find in the world. If that’s what happens when you trust the government then sign me up! PS. I know the situation can quickly deteriorate if you’re not constantly monitoring what the government does and agree with OP on that. Just thought it was incredibly naive to try to make the point that this can lead to an autocracy while showing one of the most well functioning democracies in the world. The USA seems like a much better example, and even then compared to most countries in the world, as you can see by the amount of people trying to move there, it’s still a pretty damn nice place to go.
- BSDobelix 1y ago
  >If that’s what happens when you trust the government then sign me up! Like that? https://cphpost.dk/2024-05-05/news/climate/danish-companies-breach-eu-law-dump-toxic-waste-into-sea-environment-ministry-waves-it-through/ https://cphpost.dk/2024-05-05/news/climate/danish-companies-... >>Danish companies breach EU law, dump toxic waste into sea – Environment Ministry waves it through Or that? https://eos.org/thelandslideblog/nordic-waste-1 https://eos.org/thelandslideblog/nordic-waste-1 >>The Nordic Waste landslide scandal in Denmark Maybe how about that? (50 years ago) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K--KsfrEhPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K--KsfrEhPI >>How Denmark forced young women in Greenland to get IUDs

pluto_modadic 1y ago

same logic as "fixing the clocks wasn't that big of a problem, the world didn't set on fire", well yeah because we warned you and fixed it. This is also the logic behind the no-win scenario of IT/security budgets: things are working: why do we pay so much for IT/security or XYZ tool, we don't need it. things are on fire: we pay so much money for IT/security or XYZ tool and it didn't help us

RealCodingOtaku 1y ago

People said the same thing about the UKs Online Safety Act when it was proposed. If these articles do not warn us to take action and spread more awareness on what's going on, we would just be stepping closer to the dystopian future faster.

sim7c00 1y ago

they never really needed it because their allies already got all the data but with UK out of the EU and US proving less reliable / more volatile ally its more important for them to have their own source of intel. though, because lawful intercept is also a thing in EU, its stupid to assume they do not already have access if they want it. despite not having 'dragnet' surveillance , they have effective and deep targeted surveillance and laws that allow them to do that fairly freely.... (most countries are more strict with their own citizens, but then its handy to have allies to do it for u -_-... wonderful world!)

constantcrying 1y ago

>Until member states start actually backing this these articles are nothing but click bait. As the article states "According to the former MEP for the German Pirate Party, Patrick Breyer, Denmark crucially needs to manage to convince Germany of its proposed text. The new government has not yet taken a position at the time of writing." And since the current German government is bound to take the most idiotic and destructive path it is basically assured.

pieter_mj 1y ago

This time it is happening. Global geopolitical forces are coalescing.