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it seems it is the general Zeitgeist in Europe. Also in Switzerland and generally erosions of Privacy laws all across the continent. The governments are scared

it seems it is the general Zeitgeist in Europe. Also in Switzerland and generally erosions of Privacy laws all across the continent. The governments are scared of insurgencies from the right, from the left, from immigrants, from foreign nations. Paranoia and fear are quite prominent.

clarionbell 1y ago
The way you described it, Europe sounds almost like Imperium from 40k.
- freilanzer 1y ago
  If only.
collyw 1y ago
[flagged]
- wobfan 1y ago
  What does this have to do with chat scanning? Theyre not scanning the chats of the ones complaining, nor any multicultural people? It's about child abuse and it has been a thing for like always. Also, weakening or prohibiting encryption has been discussed before this multicultural thing that you describe happened, and it will continue to. Like, literally since the start of the Internet the governments are fighting encryption hard.
- shafyy 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - robk 1y ago
    How is that xenophobic? Poor form for you.
    - shafyy 1y ago
      Isn't "multicultural" a euphemism for immigrants here? Or maybe I misunderstood, in which case I apologize.
      - VikingMiner 1y ago
        Partly. But it isn't necessarily Xenophobia. Those who have different cultures happen to be typically immigrants, but not always. e.g. In Northern Ireland (and parts of Scotland) there were clashes between Protestants and Catholics. I used to see them all the time on the news when I was a kid. There are two distinct groups (both Christian) that have not co-existed very well historically. I don't know if you would call them different cultures but they are distinct enough to cause a schism. If you have immigration into one country. These people with different cultures, have different values. That creates a schism between them and the natives. e.g. You can see this in Spain between British Expats and Spanish Nationals. The British Expats essentially live in particular areas and they are their own subculture in Spain (I know I was one). I lived the entire time in Spain learning nothing more than being able to order Beer, Lunch, Taxi and working out how to use the automated bill payment machine at the BBVA.
        shafyy 1y ago
        Sure. That's a very generous interpretation. But I am quite certain OP does not mean "priviliged white dudes" as the issue with "multiculturalism". May OP can expand on what they mean exactly.
        VikingMiner 1y ago
        No it isn't a "generous interpretation". You seem to be taking very uncharitable interpretation while insinuating they are some sort of unrepentant racist. I am not sure why you are doing that. I find it extremely tiresome. I deliberately gave examples where both groups were White Europeans so to avoid any conflation with racism. Otherwise the conversation is guaranteed to go nowhere as it ends up in accusations of people being secretly racist. The problem is simply a clash of values between two disparate groups of people as they come from different cultures. The ethnicity of the groups is often irrelevant.
andriamanitra 1y ago
It's always a minority pushing the weakening of encryption, which is why the proposals have never made it very far. What separates Europe from the US is that our political system is way more diverse and involves many more political groups (some of which have extreme opinions). This naturally means more diverse proposals, and lower chance of a given proposal becoming a reality. Especially so when compared to the US where it seems one person with the support of one political party can seemingly implement any crazy policy they think of on a whim. I think it's probably a good thing to explore a wider range of ideas, even if many of the ideas suck and end up being scrapped.
- inglor_cz 1y ago
  A minority may be pushing, but a majority is for. If you look at actual history of Chat Control: it always had majority support, and it was always a blocking minority that stopped it.
VikingMiner 1y ago
The irony is that they cannot deal with an insurgency if it was organised offline or via secure messaging platforms. They simply don't have the man power to deal with it. At the moment only a few people realise this, if that changes and any insurgent activity actually do halfway decent OPSEC they are finished.

clarionbell 1y ago

The way you described it, Europe sounds almost like Imperium from 40k.

freilanzer 1y ago
If only.

collyw 1y ago

[flagged]

wobfan 1y ago
What does this have to do with chat scanning? Theyre not scanning the chats of the ones complaining, nor any multicultural people? It's about child abuse and it has been a thing for like always. Also, weakening or prohibiting encryption has been discussed before this multicultural thing that you describe happened, and it will continue to. Like, literally since the start of the Internet the governments are fighting encryption hard.
shafyy 1y ago
[flagged]
- robk 1y ago
  How is that xenophobic? Poor form for you.
  - shafyy 1y ago
    Isn't "multicultural" a euphemism for immigrants here? Or maybe I misunderstood, in which case I apologize.
    - VikingMiner 1y ago
      Partly. But it isn't necessarily Xenophobia. Those who have different cultures happen to be typically immigrants, but not always. e.g. In Northern Ireland (and parts of Scotland) there were clashes between Protestants and Catholics. I used to see them all the time on the news when I was a kid. There are two distinct groups (both Christian) that have not co-existed very well historically. I don't know if you would call them different cultures but they are distinct enough to cause a schism. If you have immigration into one country. These people with different cultures, have different values. That creates a schism between them and the natives. e.g. You can see this in Spain between British Expats and Spanish Nationals. The British Expats essentially live in particular areas and they are their own subculture in Spain (I know I was one). I lived the entire time in Spain learning nothing more than being able to order Beer, Lunch, Taxi and working out how to use the automated bill payment machine at the BBVA.
      - shafyy 1y ago
        Sure. That's a very generous interpretation. But I am quite certain OP does not mean "priviliged white dudes" as the issue with "multiculturalism". May OP can expand on what they mean exactly.
        VikingMiner 1y ago
        No it isn't a "generous interpretation". You seem to be taking very uncharitable interpretation while insinuating they are some sort of unrepentant racist. I am not sure why you are doing that. I find it extremely tiresome. I deliberately gave examples where both groups were White Europeans so to avoid any conflation with racism. Otherwise the conversation is guaranteed to go nowhere as it ends up in accusations of people being secretly racist. The problem is simply a clash of values between two disparate groups of people as they come from different cultures. The ethnicity of the groups is often irrelevant.

andriamanitra 1y ago

It's always a minority pushing the weakening of encryption, which is why the proposals have never made it very far. What separates Europe from the US is that our political system is way more diverse and involves many more political groups (some of which have extreme opinions). This naturally means more diverse proposals, and lower chance of a given proposal becoming a reality. Especially so when compared to the US where it seems one person with the support of one political party can seemingly implement any crazy policy they think of on a whim. I think it's probably a good thing to explore a wider range of ideas, even if many of the ideas suck and end up being scrapped.

inglor_cz 1y ago
A minority may be pushing, but a majority is for. If you look at actual history of Chat Control: it always had majority support, and it was always a blocking minority that stopped it.

VikingMiner 1y ago

The irony is that they cannot deal with an insurgency if it was organised offline or via secure messaging platforms. They simply don't have the man power to deal with it. At the moment only a few people realise this, if that changes and any insurgent activity actually do halfway decent OPSEC they are finished.