5 ms·

Clamping down on freedoms is not conservative policy. Crap like Communications Act 2003 and Ofcom has been Labour policy for decades.

asib 1y ago
Laughable. Allow me to introduce you to the anti protest legislation brought into law by Suella Braverman.
i80and 1y ago
Clamping down on freedoms has been the raison d'être of "conservative" parties across the world my entire life
- permo-w 1y ago
  this is still absolutely true, but there have been some rumblings of change in recent years. "left wing" values have partially shifted from trying to provide equal freedoms for everyone, to trying to provide freedoms for perceived-as marginalised groups, often at the expense of freedoms for lesser marginalised groups. if you're part of a lesser marginalised group and you don't subscribe to that particular ideology, this is going to feel very much the same as having your freedoms clamped down upon, and conservatives have pounced upon that as a stick to beat their enemies with, and to be fair, have come some way themselves wrt to gay rights and perhaps drug prohibition and some other things. taking a step back though, conservatives, particularly in the UK, are by no means libertarians, and in the UK essentially sired the "left wing" values that they hate so much. when did the revolution start? 2010-15ish?
- broken-kebab 1y ago
  Both "conservatism" and "freedoms" mean a lot of different things even within anglophone countries, not to mention the obvious fact that political actors of any color never strictly follow their foundational ideology. This makes me believe that speaking for the whole world is a bit too daring, and your statement is purely emotional.
- soraminazuki 1y ago
  Conservatives clamping down on freedoms is only half of the story. They proclaim to be the strongest defender of freedom while they're at it.
arrowsmith 1y ago
The Conservatives aren't a conservative party.
- varispeed 1y ago
  Both Conservatives and Labour serve the same corporate interests. Divide et impera.
Hammershaft 1y ago
Conservatism isn't libertarianism. Conservative parties across the world, including in the anglosphere, often advocate for laws that limit freedom but accomplish ulterior conservative goals.
- permo-w 1y ago
  freedom isn't just freedom. it's freedom for. conservatives tend to favour freedom for businesses. freedom for the establishment. freedom for the rich. you would hope that progressives favour freedom for everyone, but nowadays the louder voices on the left have sometimes been over-invested in freedom for culturally marginalised groups and under-invested in freedom for economically marginalised groups
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    > nowadays the louder voices on the left have sometimes been over-invested in freedom for culturally marginalised groups and under-invested in freedom for economically marginalised groups That's just marketing from the right to discourage people with average income to vote left ("they want to give all your money to the immigrants!"). The only people the left doesn't want freedom for is those who are actively trying to take it away. The bigger issue is that the left hasn't really existed in most countries for a long time, like the UK. "new labour" betrayed their heritage and adopted conservative points of view. Leaders who are trying to bring it back like Corbyn are ridiculed and marginalised.
    - hellojesus 1y ago
      > The only people the left doesn't want freedom for is those who are actively trying to take it away. My experience is that most progressive causes want to redistribute income from high earners to low earners. Policies such as government supported housing, daycare, support this. These policies actively restrict freedoms by removing the freedom of choice from consumers. They introduce deadweight loss and moral hazard. Imo this is the folly of the left.
      - 1y ago
JdeBP 1y ago
Here's the Conservative policy for the Online Safety Act 2023, during the Sunak government: * https://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/50/notes/division/3/index.htm https://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/50/notes/division/3/in... Here's the Conservative white paper on Online Harms from 2019, during the May government: * https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/online-harms-white-paper/online-harms-white-paper https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/online-harms-whi...
- cryptonector 1y ago
  To be fair, u/jojobas wrote "conservative" (little-c), not "Conservative".
  - scott_w 1y ago
    However they did also specifically reference the Labour government’s policy, so it’s reasonable to assume they were speaking in a UK context and simply forgot to capitalise it.
- blitzar 1y ago
  Lets not forget the "Snoopers Charter" the party was so proud of.
scott_w 1y ago
I would read the 2019 Conservative manifesto, then. Crushing democracy and judicial oversight was very much Tory policy.
Throwkin 1y ago
[dead]
blitzar 1y ago
> Clamping down on freedoms is not conservative policy. Perhaps you can explain why the conservative party keep writing bills that clamp down on freedoms, introducing them, whipping their party to vote for them and signing them into law?

asib 1y ago

Laughable. Allow me to introduce you to the anti protest legislation brought into law by Suella Braverman.

i80and 1y ago

Clamping down on freedoms has been the raison d'être of "conservative" parties across the world my entire life

permo-w 1y ago
this is still absolutely true, but there have been some rumblings of change in recent years. "left wing" values have partially shifted from trying to provide equal freedoms for everyone, to trying to provide freedoms for perceived-as marginalised groups, often at the expense of freedoms for lesser marginalised groups. if you're part of a lesser marginalised group and you don't subscribe to that particular ideology, this is going to feel very much the same as having your freedoms clamped down upon, and conservatives have pounced upon that as a stick to beat their enemies with, and to be fair, have come some way themselves wrt to gay rights and perhaps drug prohibition and some other things. taking a step back though, conservatives, particularly in the UK, are by no means libertarians, and in the UK essentially sired the "left wing" values that they hate so much. when did the revolution start? 2010-15ish?
broken-kebab 1y ago
Both "conservatism" and "freedoms" mean a lot of different things even within anglophone countries, not to mention the obvious fact that political actors of any color never strictly follow their foundational ideology. This makes me believe that speaking for the whole world is a bit too daring, and your statement is purely emotional.
soraminazuki 1y ago
Conservatives clamping down on freedoms is only half of the story. They proclaim to be the strongest defender of freedom while they're at it.

arrowsmith 1y ago

The Conservatives aren't a conservative party.

varispeed 1y ago
Both Conservatives and Labour serve the same corporate interests. Divide et impera.

Hammershaft 1y ago

Conservatism isn't libertarianism. Conservative parties across the world, including in the anglosphere, often advocate for laws that limit freedom but accomplish ulterior conservative goals.

permo-w 1y ago
freedom isn't just freedom. it's freedom for. conservatives tend to favour freedom for businesses. freedom for the establishment. freedom for the rich. you would hope that progressives favour freedom for everyone, but nowadays the louder voices on the left have sometimes been over-invested in freedom for culturally marginalised groups and under-invested in freedom for economically marginalised groups
- wkat4242 1y ago
  > nowadays the louder voices on the left have sometimes been over-invested in freedom for culturally marginalised groups and under-invested in freedom for economically marginalised groups That's just marketing from the right to discourage people with average income to vote left ("they want to give all your money to the immigrants!"). The only people the left doesn't want freedom for is those who are actively trying to take it away. The bigger issue is that the left hasn't really existed in most countries for a long time, like the UK. "new labour" betrayed their heritage and adopted conservative points of view. Leaders who are trying to bring it back like Corbyn are ridiculed and marginalised.
  - hellojesus 1y ago
    > The only people the left doesn't want freedom for is those who are actively trying to take it away. My experience is that most progressive causes want to redistribute income from high earners to low earners. Policies such as government supported housing, daycare, support this. These policies actively restrict freedoms by removing the freedom of choice from consumers. They introduce deadweight loss and moral hazard. Imo this is the folly of the left.
    - 1y ago

JdeBP 1y ago

Here's the Conservative policy for the Online Safety Act 2023, during the Sunak government: * https://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/50/notes/division/3/index.htm https://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/50/notes/division/3/in... Here's the Conservative white paper on Online Harms from 2019, during the May government: * https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/online-harms-white-paper/online-harms-white-paper https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/online-harms-whi...

cryptonector 1y ago
To be fair, u/jojobas wrote "conservative" (little-c), not "Conservative".
- scott_w 1y ago
  However they did also specifically reference the Labour government’s policy, so it’s reasonable to assume they were speaking in a UK context and simply forgot to capitalise it.
blitzar 1y ago
Lets not forget the "Snoopers Charter" the party was so proud of.

scott_w 1y ago

I would read the 2019 Conservative manifesto, then. Crushing democracy and judicial oversight was very much Tory policy.

Throwkin 1y ago

[dead]

blitzar 1y ago

> Clamping down on freedoms is not conservative policy. Perhaps you can explain why the conservative party keep writing bills that clamp down on freedoms, introducing them, whipping their party to vote for them and signing them into law?