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You are approaching this from a uniquely U.S. perspective. The U.K. is pretty middle of the road as far as “surveillance” and while this may offend the freedom-

by abxyz 1y ago

You are approaching this from a uniquely U.S. perspective. The U.K. is pretty middle of the road as far as “surveillance” and while this may offend the freedom-at-all-costs sensibilities, it’s a fairly milquetoast change. Visiting the Heineken website in the U.S. requires that you assert you are over the age of 21. Texas has instituted I.D. verification for pornography. Regardless of how you feel about this law, it is not accurate to say the U.K. is unique in implementing it.

aa-jv 1y ago
>The U.K. is pretty middle of the road as far as “surveillance” Just, no. 5-eyes is the most heinous human-rights-destroying apparatus under the sun, and it wouldn't be happening if it weren't for the British desire to undermine cultures they have deemed inferior.
- Steve16384 1y ago
  It's called 5-eyes because it's not just the UK.
  - aa-jv 1y ago
    It wouldn't be oppressive at massive scale, violating the human rights of billions of people, if the UK hadn't roped its lackeys into its co-criminal behaviour ..
    - Steve16384 1y ago
      Well, there was a world war going on!
rubyAce 1y ago
It his law combined with all the other iffy laws in the UK which make this nefarious. This is the issue about discussing anything about how draconian the UK is. If you compare any single law in isolation, it isn't that different. However if you take how the British authorities and how they operate it, and all the other laws you start to see a more draconian picture. That is what many people, especially those that do live in the UK don't appreciate.
- abxyz 1y ago
  I lived in the U.K. for decades and I have lived in many other countries. I’ll criticise the U.K. government and society endlessly but to describe these changes as notable or remarkable relative to most other countries is nonsense. From a U.S. internet libertarian freedom-at-all-costs perspective, sure, it’s a draconian nightmare, but for normal people from the U.K. or any other country, it’s barely a blip on their radar. The U.K. is a flawed place going to hell in a hand basket that many U.K. citizens have strong opinions on but outside of us, the freedom loving nerds on the internet, this identity verification law is not a part of the conversation. “Draconian” and “authoritarian” aren’t in the vocabulary of most U.K. citizens. They’re far more concerned about immigration and the economy. The long-standing “the U.K. has the most cctv cameras per person” meme is further evidence of this. A well-loved fact carted out by freedom-loving anti-surveillance types… that the mainstream of the U.K. could not care less about.
  - rubyAce 1y ago
    > I lived in the U.K. for decades and I have lived in many other countries. I’ll criticise the U.K. government and society endlessly but to describe these changes as notable or remarkable relative to most other countries is nonsense. I am English. I was born in England, my parents are English, my Grandparents were English, My Great Grandparents were English etc. etc. I have lived my majority of my life here. So I am English. You obviously didn't read what I said. I understand that it is nothing special in isolation. However I am not talking about it in isolation. I was talking about the entirety of how the current laws are constructed as well as how the UK state operates. Also just because other countries have rubbish laws, doesn't mean we should have adopted similar ones. > From a U.S. internet libertarian freedom-at-all-costs perspective, sure, it’s a draconian nightmare, but for normal people from the U.K. or any other country, it’s barely a blip on their radar. Many people do not like this and are actively seeking work-arounds. These aren't uber nerds like myself BTW. > The U.K. is a flawed place going to hell in a hand basket that many U.K. citizens have strong opinions on but outside of us, the freedom loving nerds on the internet, this identity verification law is not a part of the conversation. So you admit there is a problem. But you then pretend that this can't possibly be part of the entire picture because you say so. Sorry it very much well is part of the problem. You stating it isn't doesn't make it so.
Aurornis 1y ago
> You are approaching this from a uniquely U.S. perspective. It’s not uniquely U.S. at all What other countries require ID checks for services like Discord? The U.K.’s implementation of this law is much more unique than you’re claiming.
- foldr 1y ago
  You don’t need age verification to access all of Discord, just NSFW servers. You can certainly argue that that’s an unjustifiable interference in people’s freedom to access the internet services that they want to access. But please don’t exaggerate.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    > You don’t need age verification to access all of Discord, just NSFW servers. That’s not correct. The Discord support explains that it’s required to change automatic content filtering or unblur any content that gets caught by the automatic filters.
    - foldr 1y ago
      Yes, that’s what I meant. You can still access Discord, just not any content that’s detected as NSFW. Generally speaking that content will be on NSFW servers (the kind that e.g. the iPhone app would block you from accessing by default). Obviously there is not going to be a “nah I really want to see this tho” button, or the age check would be completely pointless.
      - johnisgood 1y ago
        That is not true. Try going to a server that asks for your age and then go ahead to choose "2020". > Obviously there is not going to be a “nah I really want to see this tho” button, or the age check would be completely pointless. That is exactly how "ignoring" an user on Discord works. Their messages are still there and you have to click on it to have it uncollapsed, so that is kind of ironic of you to say, lmao. So yeah, there actually is a "nah I really want to see this tho" button.
lucasRW 1y ago
Do you know of other western countries that send cops to your house because you posted memes on X ? Saying that illegal migrants should be sent back home can literally land you at the police station. A hotel worker was arrested for testifying to what he saw in his hotels, ie. migrants being hosted, given a phone, meals, and NHS visit once every two weeks.
- abxyz 1y ago
  The U.S. is the outlier, not the U.K. Go do a Nazi salute in Germany, or Australia. Burn the Quran in Sweden. So on and so forth.
- ChrisKnott 1y ago
  > "Do you know of other western countries that send cops to your house because you posted memes on X ?" This guy was prosecuted in the US for posting a meme on Twitter [0]. I imagine this can happen in almost every country. What ones do you think it can't happen in? [0] https://www.courthousenews.com/on-trial-for-memes-man-asks-second-circuit-to-overturn-conviction-over-election-day-shenanigans/ https://www.courthousenews.com/on-trial-for-memes-man-asks-s...
selfmodruntime 1y ago
This is objectively untrue when compared to other western countries. You have people arrested for posting memes on their mums Facebook page.

by abxyz 1y ago

aa-jv 1y ago

>The U.K. is pretty middle of the road as far as “surveillance” Just, no. 5-eyes is the most heinous human-rights-destroying apparatus under the sun, and it wouldn't be happening if it weren't for the British desire to undermine cultures they have deemed inferior.

Steve16384 1y ago
It's called 5-eyes because it's not just the UK.
- aa-jv 1y ago
  It wouldn't be oppressive at massive scale, violating the human rights of billions of people, if the UK hadn't roped its lackeys into its co-criminal behaviour ..
  - Steve16384 1y ago
    Well, there was a world war going on!

rubyAce 1y ago

It his law combined with all the other iffy laws in the UK which make this nefarious. This is the issue about discussing anything about how draconian the UK is. If you compare any single law in isolation, it isn't that different. However if you take how the British authorities and how they operate it, and all the other laws you start to see a more draconian picture. That is what many people, especially those that do live in the UK don't appreciate.

abxyz 1y ago
I lived in the U.K. for decades and I have lived in many other countries. I’ll criticise the U.K. government and society endlessly but to describe these changes as notable or remarkable relative to most other countries is nonsense. From a U.S. internet libertarian freedom-at-all-costs perspective, sure, it’s a draconian nightmare, but for normal people from the U.K. or any other country, it’s barely a blip on their radar. The U.K. is a flawed place going to hell in a hand basket that many U.K. citizens have strong opinions on but outside of us, the freedom loving nerds on the internet, this identity verification law is not a part of the conversation. “Draconian” and “authoritarian” aren’t in the vocabulary of most U.K. citizens. They’re far more concerned about immigration and the economy. The long-standing “the U.K. has the most cctv cameras per person” meme is further evidence of this. A well-loved fact carted out by freedom-loving anti-surveillance types… that the mainstream of the U.K. could not care less about.
- rubyAce 1y ago
  > I lived in the U.K. for decades and I have lived in many other countries. I’ll criticise the U.K. government and society endlessly but to describe these changes as notable or remarkable relative to most other countries is nonsense. I am English. I was born in England, my parents are English, my Grandparents were English, My Great Grandparents were English etc. etc. I have lived my majority of my life here. So I am English. You obviously didn't read what I said. I understand that it is nothing special in isolation. However I am not talking about it in isolation. I was talking about the entirety of how the current laws are constructed as well as how the UK state operates. Also just because other countries have rubbish laws, doesn't mean we should have adopted similar ones. > From a U.S. internet libertarian freedom-at-all-costs perspective, sure, it’s a draconian nightmare, but for normal people from the U.K. or any other country, it’s barely a blip on their radar. Many people do not like this and are actively seeking work-arounds. These aren't uber nerds like myself BTW. > The U.K. is a flawed place going to hell in a hand basket that many U.K. citizens have strong opinions on but outside of us, the freedom loving nerds on the internet, this identity verification law is not a part of the conversation. So you admit there is a problem. But you then pretend that this can't possibly be part of the entire picture because you say so. Sorry it very much well is part of the problem. You stating it isn't doesn't make it so.

Aurornis 1y ago

> You are approaching this from a uniquely U.S. perspective. It’s not uniquely U.S. at all What other countries require ID checks for services like Discord? The U.K.’s implementation of this law is much more unique than you’re claiming.

foldr 1y ago
You don’t need age verification to access all of Discord, just NSFW servers. You can certainly argue that that’s an unjustifiable interference in people’s freedom to access the internet services that they want to access. But please don’t exaggerate.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > You don’t need age verification to access all of Discord, just NSFW servers. That’s not correct. The Discord support explains that it’s required to change automatic content filtering or unblur any content that gets caught by the automatic filters.
  - foldr 1y ago
    Yes, that’s what I meant. You can still access Discord, just not any content that’s detected as NSFW. Generally speaking that content will be on NSFW servers (the kind that e.g. the iPhone app would block you from accessing by default). Obviously there is not going to be a “nah I really want to see this tho” button, or the age check would be completely pointless.
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      That is not true. Try going to a server that asks for your age and then go ahead to choose "2020". > Obviously there is not going to be a “nah I really want to see this tho” button, or the age check would be completely pointless. That is exactly how "ignoring" an user on Discord works. Their messages are still there and you have to click on it to have it uncollapsed, so that is kind of ironic of you to say, lmao. So yeah, there actually is a "nah I really want to see this tho" button.

lucasRW 1y ago

Do you know of other western countries that send cops to your house because you posted memes on X ? Saying that illegal migrants should be sent back home can literally land you at the police station. A hotel worker was arrested for testifying to what he saw in his hotels, ie. migrants being hosted, given a phone, meals, and NHS visit once every two weeks.

abxyz 1y ago
The U.S. is the outlier, not the U.K. Go do a Nazi salute in Germany, or Australia. Burn the Quran in Sweden. So on and so forth.
ChrisKnott 1y ago
> "Do you know of other western countries that send cops to your house because you posted memes on X ?" This guy was prosecuted in the US for posting a meme on Twitter [0]. I imagine this can happen in almost every country. What ones do you think it can't happen in? [0] https://www.courthousenews.com/on-trial-for-memes-man-asks-second-circuit-to-overturn-conviction-over-election-day-shenanigans/ https://www.courthousenews.com/on-trial-for-memes-man-asks-s...

selfmodruntime 1y ago

This is objectively untrue when compared to other western countries. You have people arrested for posting memes on their mums Facebook page.