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Is the privatized NC DMV any better than the public one? I was just at the Delaware DMV getting my 2 vehicles inspected and registration renewed, and while not

Is the privatized NC DMV any better than the public one? I was just at the Delaware DMV getting my 2 vehicles inspected and registration renewed, and while not an entirely horrible experience, it did seem like there were a lot of inefficiencies and complacentcy. I've also noticed the difference in the US post offices around me and the FedEx stores and wonder why the post offices aren't nicer customer experiences.

nine_zeros 1y ago
> Is the privatized NC DMV any better than the public one? Nobody knows. But the only things guaranteed are: - service prices will rise because now shareholders will seek a return every year. - AI powered elevator music phone service where you must wait 30 mins before reaching a human. - Fees and costs for every interaction. - Workers will be encouraged to do work fast - by providing less service to people, asking people to come over and over again - More lobbying to reduce license and registration durations because they need people to constantly renew to collect fees and profits. About FedEx, I don't know why you think US post offices are bad. I personally find USPS to be astonishingly high quality and decent humans. FedEx is decent quality but 10x higher prices than USPS.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > Nobody knows. But the only things guaranteed are: Ironic that you jump from “nobody knows” to statements where you’re absolutely sure that it’s worse. Your “guarantees” aren’t even consistent with the language of the authorization. They aren’t giving these services carte blanche to define their own laws and processes. They’re just allowing someone else to execute part of the process. It’s hard to have these conversations when one side is arguing based on ideological abstract ideas, not the actual language of the bill. > FedEx is decent quality but 10x higher prices than USPS. I ship a lot of packages and use a service that quotes from USPS, UPS, and FedEx. It’s plainly false to claim that FedEx has 10X higher prices. This is just factually incorrect. FedEx comes out as the lowest price for maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of my shipments. It’s hard to trust someone’s arguments when they’re making egregiously false claims like this.
  - nine_zeros 1y ago
    Cost of FedEx from NYC to LA: Cheapest price for 1 lb letter is $60.37 before taxes https://www.fedex.com/en-us/online/rating.html https://www.fedex.com/en-us/online/rating.html Cheapest price on USPS for 1 lb letter is $9.70 after taxes. https://postcalc.usps.com/Calculator/MailServices?country=0&ccode=US&oz=10010&omil=False&dz=90042&dmil=False&retail=False&mdt=7%2F28%2F2025&mdz=12%3A29&m=1&hscode=False&p=1 https://postcalc.usps.com/Calculator/MailServices?country=0&... That is 7x for a standard 1 lb envelope. The claims are not as egregious as you think. You are not the only one shipping goods around. There is a market that USPS serves and I along with many others benefit from it.
    - parineum 1y ago
      Do you think one example proves your point?
      - nine_zeros 1y ago
        For a specific question about a single point? Yes. For a nuanced answer, all providers are required. USPS and FedEx both serve meaningful markets.
        parineum 1y ago
        Actually, a single point can prove you wrong but a lot of data is needed to prove you right. The reply mostly agreed with you, they said 4/5 was cheaper but 1/5 wasn't. Your statement implies 5/5 is cheaper, the other poster is the one that only needs one data point. > USPS and FedEx both serve meaningful markets. You from two replies ago would be shocked to hear that.
        Aurornis 1y ago
        > The reply mostly agreed with you, they said 4/5 was cheaper but 1/5 wasn't One clarification: The other 4/5 is split between UPS and USPS. I’m fortunate to have drop boxes and shipping centers for all 3 providers near my house or on the way to the gym.
- the__alchemist 1y ago
  My experience (In NC, incidentally, with those two carriers): FedEx blows. They are slower than USPS for domestic, and generally claim I wasn't home, despite living in a bldg with a concierge. UPS and DHL of course out do both, but FedEx is the worst.
- woobar 1y ago
  What are your assumptions are based on? NC outsourced safety inspections to private sector decades ago. And nothing you have described has happened. - the service prices are all fixed ($30 or $13.60) - tons of places to do your inspection, wait times are almost zero - work is done in 10 minutes - new reduced rate ($13.60) for newer vehicles was introduced some years ago If they do something similar for driver license offices or vehicle registration offices it will be a giant leap in quality of service. Right now in bigger cities you cannot make an appointment 6 months in advance, and walk-in does not guarantee you will get any service even after spending whole day in line.
Aurornis 1y ago
I’ve dealt with DMVs across multiple living locations and the differences are incredible. The worst ones were a nightmare to deal with that virtually required taking a half day off work. One time I had to line up outside in the sun (I hadn’t brought sunscreen) because they decided that the line needed to be outside the building instead of inside, despite having space for it. My only guess is that they were being measured on some metric like average wait time and someone’s genius idea to game that metric was to make people in line bake in the sun so they’d rather leave than go home. The best DMV I’ve been to ran like a well oiled machine. They had someone posted at the door to pre-review your goal and ensure you had the right papers with you to avoid surprises at the counter. You got a numbered ticket to hold. Signs showed your position in line and estimated wait time. There were thoughtfully placed chairs. Every time I visited I waited no more than 10 minutes. Even the Google reviews for the DMV office were great. As far as I can tell the difference had nothing to do with staffing or headcount. The bad DMVs oddly had bigger offices, they just had people who moved at a snail’s pace and didn’t care about anything other than running the clock out until they could go home. This is what people dislike about poorly run government offices: There’s a palpable malaise in some government interactions that is clearly not present in well run offices. I don’t think privatization is the obvious fix, but I can see why after years or decades of nothing changing at famously mismanaged offices that people would be willing to try alternatives
- marcosdumay 1y ago
  > The bad DMVs oddly had bigger offices, they just had people who moved at a snail’s pace and didn’t care about anything other than running the clock out until they could go home. Well, all of the people? You are certainly looking at the consequence of something that you don't fully understand. All of the people in a place don't start acting the same way for no reason.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    I don’t know what you’re trying to imply, but it’s no mystery why certain institutions start functioning this poorly. It’s because there are no consequences for slow or poor performance. The people who want to do a good job get fed up and leave. The people who just want paychecks and no consequences stay. It’s not a mystery.
jrs235 1y ago
Perhaps because folks are more focused on low(er) costs than experiences?
scarface_74 1y ago
If you live in the 5 county metro Atlanta area you have to do a biannual emissions inspection. You can go to any of the plentiful inspection stations pay a mandated $20 and they send the results in electronically. You can then pay for your tag online. Change of address within the state can also be done online within GA. Even when you do go in, you just get a number and wait for it to be called. It’s very well organized. This is definitely a red veering on purple state. https://dds.georgia.gov/georgia-licenseid/existing-licenseid/how-do-i-update-license https://dds.georgia.gov/georgia-licenseid/existing-licenseid... We moved to Florida three years ago and the process for getting a license was not that much different. My wife had to jump through a couple of more hoops to transfer her CDL.
- Iwan-Zotow 1y ago
  Annual inspection, and it is $25
maxlybbert 1y ago
When I lived in North Carolina a few years ago, it was common for local private companies to get a contract with the state to run offices that issue license plates, while only the state ran the offices that issue drivers licenses and everything else. The private companies are highly regulated. They can’t charge whatever price they want, and I’m sure they get the plates from the state. They really just handle the paperwork. I personally had better experiences getting license plates than getting drivers licenses. But they are very different transactions, and issuing license plates seems much simpler to me. And I had good experiences getting a drivers license in smaller towns; the only time I waited for hours in an NC DMV was in a large city. And I would choose that experience again over the California DMV, or the Nevada DMV, but not the New Jersey DMV (which they call the MVC).
QuantumGood 1y ago
There is an entropic force that leads most organizations to optimize for survival of the organization over time, and worsen the ability to serve the ostensible purpose the organization exists to serve. Changing the type of the organization doesn't matter much if this tendency is not addressed honestly in the mission statement or somewhere similar.
- convolvatron 1y ago
  I was totally with you until you proposed that a careful mission statement is the solution to organizational ossification. I've always considered them a symptom, and to the extent that they are prescriptive, you can safely assume that the operational reality is the polar opposite.
  - QuantumGood 1y ago
    I said "honest" not "careful", but really it's about actual intentions, not paper promises. It's just a label for intentions, and as you point out, manipulated to hide intentions more than describe them.
spauldo 1y ago
We've had privatized tag agents in Oklahoma for as long as I can remember. It actually works pretty well. If you need a driver's test or CDL background checks, you need the DPS office (which is very hit-and-miss). For everything else - tags, license renewal, etc. - a tag agent handles it. They all charge the same fees and offer the same services, so it doesn't matter which one you go to. If the local agency is always busy, someone will open another one. I'm not normally a fan of privatization, but this is one of the cases where it makes sense. It's one of the few things Oklahoma gets right.

nine_zeros 1y ago

> Is the privatized NC DMV any better than the public one? Nobody knows. But the only things guaranteed are: - service prices will rise because now shareholders will seek a return every year. - AI powered elevator music phone service where you must wait 30 mins before reaching a human. - Fees and costs for every interaction. - Workers will be encouraged to do work fast - by providing less service to people, asking people to come over and over again - More lobbying to reduce license and registration durations because they need people to constantly renew to collect fees and profits. About FedEx, I don't know why you think US post offices are bad. I personally find USPS to be astonishingly high quality and decent humans. FedEx is decent quality but 10x higher prices than USPS.

Aurornis 1y ago
> Nobody knows. But the only things guaranteed are: Ironic that you jump from “nobody knows” to statements where you’re absolutely sure that it’s worse. Your “guarantees” aren’t even consistent with the language of the authorization. They aren’t giving these services carte blanche to define their own laws and processes. They’re just allowing someone else to execute part of the process. It’s hard to have these conversations when one side is arguing based on ideological abstract ideas, not the actual language of the bill. > FedEx is decent quality but 10x higher prices than USPS. I ship a lot of packages and use a service that quotes from USPS, UPS, and FedEx. It’s plainly false to claim that FedEx has 10X higher prices. This is just factually incorrect. FedEx comes out as the lowest price for maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of my shipments. It’s hard to trust someone’s arguments when they’re making egregiously false claims like this.
- nine_zeros 1y ago
  Cost of FedEx from NYC to LA: Cheapest price for 1 lb letter is $60.37 before taxes https://www.fedex.com/en-us/online/rating.html https://www.fedex.com/en-us/online/rating.html Cheapest price on USPS for 1 lb letter is $9.70 after taxes. https://postcalc.usps.com/Calculator/MailServices?country=0&ccode=US&oz=10010&omil=False&dz=90042&dmil=False&retail=False&mdt=7%2F28%2F2025&mdz=12%3A29&m=1&hscode=False&p=1 https://postcalc.usps.com/Calculator/MailServices?country=0&... That is 7x for a standard 1 lb envelope. The claims are not as egregious as you think. You are not the only one shipping goods around. There is a market that USPS serves and I along with many others benefit from it.
  - parineum 1y ago
    Do you think one example proves your point?
    - nine_zeros 1y ago
      For a specific question about a single point? Yes. For a nuanced answer, all providers are required. USPS and FedEx both serve meaningful markets.
      - parineum 1y ago
        Actually, a single point can prove you wrong but a lot of data is needed to prove you right. The reply mostly agreed with you, they said 4/5 was cheaper but 1/5 wasn't. Your statement implies 5/5 is cheaper, the other poster is the one that only needs one data point. > USPS and FedEx both serve meaningful markets. You from two replies ago would be shocked to hear that.
        Aurornis 1y ago
        > The reply mostly agreed with you, they said 4/5 was cheaper but 1/5 wasn't One clarification: The other 4/5 is split between UPS and USPS. I’m fortunate to have drop boxes and shipping centers for all 3 providers near my house or on the way to the gym.
the__alchemist 1y ago
My experience (In NC, incidentally, with those two carriers): FedEx blows. They are slower than USPS for domestic, and generally claim I wasn't home, despite living in a bldg with a concierge. UPS and DHL of course out do both, but FedEx is the worst.
woobar 1y ago
What are your assumptions are based on? NC outsourced safety inspections to private sector decades ago. And nothing you have described has happened. - the service prices are all fixed ($30 or $13.60) - tons of places to do your inspection, wait times are almost zero - work is done in 10 minutes - new reduced rate ($13.60) for newer vehicles was introduced some years ago If they do something similar for driver license offices or vehicle registration offices it will be a giant leap in quality of service. Right now in bigger cities you cannot make an appointment 6 months in advance, and walk-in does not guarantee you will get any service even after spending whole day in line.

Aurornis 1y ago

I’ve dealt with DMVs across multiple living locations and the differences are incredible. The worst ones were a nightmare to deal with that virtually required taking a half day off work. One time I had to line up outside in the sun (I hadn’t brought sunscreen) because they decided that the line needed to be outside the building instead of inside, despite having space for it. My only guess is that they were being measured on some metric like average wait time and someone’s genius idea to game that metric was to make people in line bake in the sun so they’d rather leave than go home. The best DMV I’ve been to ran like a well oiled machine. They had someone posted at the door to pre-review your goal and ensure you had the right papers with you to avoid surprises at the counter. You got a numbered ticket to hold. Signs showed your position in line and estimated wait time. There were thoughtfully placed chairs. Every time I visited I waited no more than 10 minutes. Even the Google reviews for the DMV office were great. As far as I can tell the difference had nothing to do with staffing or headcount. The bad DMVs oddly had bigger offices, they just had people who moved at a snail’s pace and didn’t care about anything other than running the clock out until they could go home. This is what people dislike about poorly run government offices: There’s a palpable malaise in some government interactions that is clearly not present in well run offices. I don’t think privatization is the obvious fix, but I can see why after years or decades of nothing changing at famously mismanaged offices that people would be willing to try alternatives

marcosdumay 1y ago
> The bad DMVs oddly had bigger offices, they just had people who moved at a snail’s pace and didn’t care about anything other than running the clock out until they could go home. Well, all of the people? You are certainly looking at the consequence of something that you don't fully understand. All of the people in a place don't start acting the same way for no reason.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  I don’t know what you’re trying to imply, but it’s no mystery why certain institutions start functioning this poorly. It’s because there are no consequences for slow or poor performance. The people who want to do a good job get fed up and leave. The people who just want paychecks and no consequences stay. It’s not a mystery.

jrs235 1y ago

Perhaps because folks are more focused on low(er) costs than experiences?

scarface_74 1y ago

If you live in the 5 county metro Atlanta area you have to do a biannual emissions inspection. You can go to any of the plentiful inspection stations pay a mandated $20 and they send the results in electronically. You can then pay for your tag online. Change of address within the state can also be done online within GA. Even when you do go in, you just get a number and wait for it to be called. It’s very well organized. This is definitely a red veering on purple state. https://dds.georgia.gov/georgia-licenseid/existing-licenseid/how-do-i-update-license https://dds.georgia.gov/georgia-licenseid/existing-licenseid... We moved to Florida three years ago and the process for getting a license was not that much different. My wife had to jump through a couple of more hoops to transfer her CDL.

Iwan-Zotow 1y ago
Annual inspection, and it is $25

maxlybbert 1y ago

When I lived in North Carolina a few years ago, it was common for local private companies to get a contract with the state to run offices that issue license plates, while only the state ran the offices that issue drivers licenses and everything else. The private companies are highly regulated. They can’t charge whatever price they want, and I’m sure they get the plates from the state. They really just handle the paperwork. I personally had better experiences getting license plates than getting drivers licenses. But they are very different transactions, and issuing license plates seems much simpler to me. And I had good experiences getting a drivers license in smaller towns; the only time I waited for hours in an NC DMV was in a large city. And I would choose that experience again over the California DMV, or the Nevada DMV, but not the New Jersey DMV (which they call the MVC).

QuantumGood 1y ago

There is an entropic force that leads most organizations to optimize for survival of the organization over time, and worsen the ability to serve the ostensible purpose the organization exists to serve. Changing the type of the organization doesn't matter much if this tendency is not addressed honestly in the mission statement or somewhere similar.

convolvatron 1y ago
I was totally with you until you proposed that a careful mission statement is the solution to organizational ossification. I've always considered them a symptom, and to the extent that they are prescriptive, you can safely assume that the operational reality is the polar opposite.
- QuantumGood 1y ago
  I said "honest" not "careful", but really it's about actual intentions, not paper promises. It's just a label for intentions, and as you point out, manipulated to hide intentions more than describe them.

spauldo 1y ago

We've had privatized tag agents in Oklahoma for as long as I can remember. It actually works pretty well. If you need a driver's test or CDL background checks, you need the DPS office (which is very hit-and-miss). For everything else - tags, license renewal, etc. - a tag agent handles it. They all charge the same fees and offer the same services, so it doesn't matter which one you go to. If the local agency is always busy, someone will open another one. I'm not normally a fan of privatization, but this is one of the cases where it makes sense. It's one of the few things Oklahoma gets right.