5 ms·

It's all just a crystalline form of carbon. Regardless of how it was made, one is just as much "forever" as the other. The real major difference is in the labo

It's all just a crystalline form of carbon. Regardless of how it was made, one is just as much "forever" as the other. The real major difference is in the labor practices being used. De Beers had a good run as a cartel but as they say, "the jig is up"

close04 1y ago
I’m not sure diamonds are popular because of what they are but what they represent. Every gem out there is “the crystalline form” of something. Diamonds are (were?) the expensive crystalline form. And plenty of people equate “expensive” with love, or care, or respect. Even if the same people would never be able to tell the difference between diamond and cubic zirconium, knowing it’s the cheap one makes it less valuable in other ways. This depends on the person, of course. If it’s not diamonds it will have to be something else that shows “I put my money where my mouth is”. A simple metal wedding band is the same wherever it’s made but a famous jeweler will charge an arm and a leg more than your local shop for the same amount of precious metal, same effort, and same result. And yet Tiffany’s isn’t going out of business for the same reason. It’s what it represents. I am curious to see if tastes or fashion shift towards other rarer or more expensive gems not yet manufactured cheaply en masse.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  I could see thinking about this differently. As people quit believing in God, they stop thinking in terms of "God brought us together/we were made for each other" (though they stop thinking that a generation or two later than they stop believing in God). If you think that we made this relationship, then maybe a lab-grown (human made) diamond fits? (Though it may take an advertising campaign before people see it that way.) Disclaimer: I'm not a sociologist. This is just my speculation about how the dynamic could change.
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  I'd argue that a person obsessed with cost really isn't focused on what it represents. For those obsessed with materialism, real satisfaction is out of reach. There is always bigger, better and more expensive. Personally, I would tend to reconsider any long term relationship with such a person.
  - close04 1y ago
    For anyone appreciating expensive things, giving diamonds represent the willingness to fulfill that desire. It’s easy to conflate that with love, at least for a while, even when you aren’t a materialistic person. Jewelry is the pinnacle of “just monetary value”. Unlike almost any other possession, a car, a house, clothes, etc. jewelry serves no practical purpose, only shows the willingness or ability to spend for it. The more you spend, the more valuable the gesture, the more you cared to please the recipient. Materialistic people have the same feelings you have. Those just happened to be triggered by different values than yours.
    - Muromec 1y ago
      The other purpose of jewerly is looking nice. That's difficult to comprehend, but it's the actual important thing for people who's most expensive piece of everyday wear isn't their phone.
      - close04 1y ago
        Nothing supports your "looking nice" argument like finishing it with the "most expensive piece of everyday wear". If you want something nice, you get something nice, not something expensive. That's difficult to comprehend for people who measure niceness in a visibly displayed price tag.
        Muromec 1y ago
        It's a shoker, but nice things that are done by people who love making them have a tendency to be expensive.
        close04 1y ago
        Don't break your back moving those goal posts. If you cared about "nice" you would have said "nice" and let everyone understand what you mean. You said "expensive" because you meant "expensive", the core value slipped out. > nice things that are done by people who love making them have a tendency to be expensive No and no. People love making things as much as anyone loves their job, and the price of your output is not what determines it. Niceness and price are almost completely independent characteristics. You can have beautiful cheap trinkets, and garish expensive jewelry, and everything in between. Look no further than when you need an expert to tell apart real and counterfeit items. Or when your "nice and expensive" luxury items are cheap crap because nothing says "made with love so it's expensive" like luxury companies making a $50 bag with slave labor and selling it for $3000 [0]. In the end what matters to some people is the visible price tag, that's the signal, that's the core value. In the real world you’d flash some bling and people would instinctively give more weight to your opinion. Here it has to stand on merit. So I see why price is such a core value. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/pamdanziger/2024/06/24/italian-court-reveals-diors-unethical-supply-chain-and-puts-other-luxury-brands-on-notice/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/pamdanziger/2024/06/24/italian-...
Incipient 1y ago
I'd disagree with that. The prospect of a natural diamond is that it's unique (I mean, not visibly I suppose) and millions of years old. I'd say it's like AI music or art - something made by a machine, for some reason, just doesn't have any "soul" to it. I'm not actually entirely convinced in my argument, but there is something there...
- whatevaa 1y ago
  There is no "soul" in either pieces of rock.
  - yen223 1y ago
    Tired: rocks don't have souls Wired: we will put a soul in this rock for $10,000
    - cantor_S_drug 1y ago
      Spintronics: Could diamonds be a computer's best friend? For the first time, physicists have demonstrated that information can flow through a diamond wire. In the experiment, electrons did not flow through diamond as they do in traditional electronics; rather, they stayed in place and passed along a magnetic effect called "spin" to each other down the wire -- like a row of sports spectators doing "the wave." Spin could one day be used to transmit data in computer circuits -- and this new experiment revealed that diamond transmits spin better than most metals in which researchers have previously observed the effect. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140323151718.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140323151718.h...
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  If you can't tell the difference by either looking or listening, I'd argue they both have a similar amount of "soul". And thus, any distinction between them exists mainly in your head.
  - lightedman 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
shvdle 1y ago
The entire point of a diamond is that it’s expensive. People buy them for status. Otherwise there are lots of gems that are much more prettier, but they are not as expensive. It’s like saying people will stop buying branded clothes because unbranded clothes have the same or even a higher quality for a fraction of the price. Kinda misses the point.
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  It’s like saying people will stop buying branded clothes because unbranded clothes have the same or even a higher quality for a fraction of the price. People buy inferior, counterfeit merchandise all the time because they can't tell the difference. But there is nothing inferior or counterfeit about a manmade diamond. It is *exactly* the same material as a natural one.
  - shvdle 1y ago
    You miss the point. The only reason to buy a diamond is that it is expensive. It doesn’t matter if you could buy the same thing cheaper. It doesn’t matter that there are better gems that are cheaper. You buy the diamond to show that you can afford it. You buy someone a diamond to prove how much they are worth to you. Yes, you can buy a man-made diamond the same you can buy counterfeit branded clothes. That only shows that you’re tasteless and that you can’t afford the real thing.
    - jqpabc123 1y ago
      You miss the point. If it is strictly about the money, a larger man made diamond can easily cost just as much as a smaller natural one --- while instantly conveying to the untrained eye the appearance of being more expensive.
      - michaelt 1y ago
        I suspect there is pressure in the opposite direction these days. If you see someone wearing a 6-carat diamond, you know it's either a $100,000 natural diamond, or a $4,000 lab-grown diamond. And you'll assume it's the latter, as far more people can afford the latter. On the other hand, a 1-carat diamond would be more like $2000 natural, $300 lab-grown, making it far more believable that it was natural.
mathiaspoint 1y ago
It was never about the rocks. Like nearly everything else in the economy it's really about attention.
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  The attention from a man made diamond is indistinguishable from a natural one to most people.
  - cwmoore 1y ago
    I think this is true, manmade diamonds are valuable in a way that counterfeit currency is not. But "most people" may not be as important as people who know the story of, and the person wearing, the gem, and provenance is always a meaningful point of reference for expensive luxury items. My screenshots of NFTs are pixel accurate, but not exactly as valuable as the real thing.
    - mathiaspoint 1y ago
      Yeah it goes both ways too. As they say it's the thought that counts.
    - dplgk 1y ago
      It seems we've all come down to the reality that the screenshot of an nft is exactly as valuable as the nft.
xhkkffbf 1y ago
I've bought some lab created diamonds made with CVD. THey're great. If anything, they're too clear. I recommend to all newly engaged couples to buy them and save the money for more important things like raising children or buying a home. And if you look on eBay, you can get CVD diamonds for even less. (At a bit of a risk, of course.)
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  Any reputable places to get them that you know of?
  - xhkkffbf 1y ago
    No. But some of the eBay prices are so cheap that you can just risk it. And if it looks nice, that's all you can ask.
ooterness 1y ago
Like all other forms of carbon, diamonds will combust in the presence of oxygen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfa-cKDzYSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfa-cKDzYSg
- dehrmann 1y ago
  You can also use the resulting CO2 to do CO2 things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wvDwSnzcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wvDwSnzcw

close04 1y ago

I’m not sure diamonds are popular because of what they are but what they represent. Every gem out there is “the crystalline form” of something. Diamonds are (were?) the expensive crystalline form. And plenty of people equate “expensive” with love, or care, or respect. Even if the same people would never be able to tell the difference between diamond and cubic zirconium, knowing it’s the cheap one makes it less valuable in other ways. This depends on the person, of course. If it’s not diamonds it will have to be something else that shows “I put my money where my mouth is”. A simple metal wedding band is the same wherever it’s made but a famous jeweler will charge an arm and a leg more than your local shop for the same amount of precious metal, same effort, and same result. And yet Tiffany’s isn’t going out of business for the same reason. It’s what it represents. I am curious to see if tastes or fashion shift towards other rarer or more expensive gems not yet manufactured cheaply en masse.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago
I could see thinking about this differently. As people quit believing in God, they stop thinking in terms of "God brought us together/we were made for each other" (though they stop thinking that a generation or two later than they stop believing in God). If you think that we made this relationship, then maybe a lab-grown (human made) diamond fits? (Though it may take an advertising campaign before people see it that way.) Disclaimer: I'm not a sociologist. This is just my speculation about how the dynamic could change.
jqpabc123 1y ago
I'd argue that a person obsessed with cost really isn't focused on what it represents. For those obsessed with materialism, real satisfaction is out of reach. There is always bigger, better and more expensive. Personally, I would tend to reconsider any long term relationship with such a person.
- close04 1y ago
  For anyone appreciating expensive things, giving diamonds represent the willingness to fulfill that desire. It’s easy to conflate that with love, at least for a while, even when you aren’t a materialistic person. Jewelry is the pinnacle of “just monetary value”. Unlike almost any other possession, a car, a house, clothes, etc. jewelry serves no practical purpose, only shows the willingness or ability to spend for it. The more you spend, the more valuable the gesture, the more you cared to please the recipient. Materialistic people have the same feelings you have. Those just happened to be triggered by different values than yours.
  - Muromec 1y ago
    The other purpose of jewerly is looking nice. That's difficult to comprehend, but it's the actual important thing for people who's most expensive piece of everyday wear isn't their phone.
    - close04 1y ago
      Nothing supports your "looking nice" argument like finishing it with the "most expensive piece of everyday wear". If you want something nice, you get something nice, not something expensive. That's difficult to comprehend for people who measure niceness in a visibly displayed price tag.
      - Muromec 1y ago
        It's a shoker, but nice things that are done by people who love making them have a tendency to be expensive.
        close04 1y ago
        Don't break your back moving those goal posts. If you cared about "nice" you would have said "nice" and let everyone understand what you mean. You said "expensive" because you meant "expensive", the core value slipped out. > nice things that are done by people who love making them have a tendency to be expensive No and no. People love making things as much as anyone loves their job, and the price of your output is not what determines it. Niceness and price are almost completely independent characteristics. You can have beautiful cheap trinkets, and garish expensive jewelry, and everything in between. Look no further than when you need an expert to tell apart real and counterfeit items. Or when your "nice and expensive" luxury items are cheap crap because nothing says "made with love so it's expensive" like luxury companies making a $50 bag with slave labor and selling it for $3000 [0]. In the end what matters to some people is the visible price tag, that's the signal, that's the core value. In the real world you’d flash some bling and people would instinctively give more weight to your opinion. Here it has to stand on merit. So I see why price is such a core value. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/pamdanziger/2024/06/24/italian-court-reveals-diors-unethical-supply-chain-and-puts-other-luxury-brands-on-notice/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/pamdanziger/2024/06/24/italian-...

Incipient 1y ago

I'd disagree with that. The prospect of a natural diamond is that it's unique (I mean, not visibly I suppose) and millions of years old. I'd say it's like AI music or art - something made by a machine, for some reason, just doesn't have any "soul" to it. I'm not actually entirely convinced in my argument, but there is something there...

whatevaa 1y ago
There is no "soul" in either pieces of rock.
- yen223 1y ago
  Tired: rocks don't have souls Wired: we will put a soul in this rock for $10,000
  - cantor_S_drug 1y ago
    Spintronics: Could diamonds be a computer's best friend? For the first time, physicists have demonstrated that information can flow through a diamond wire. In the experiment, electrons did not flow through diamond as they do in traditional electronics; rather, they stayed in place and passed along a magnetic effect called "spin" to each other down the wire -- like a row of sports spectators doing "the wave." Spin could one day be used to transmit data in computer circuits -- and this new experiment revealed that diamond transmits spin better than most metals in which researchers have previously observed the effect. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140323151718.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140323151718.h...
jqpabc123 1y ago
If you can't tell the difference by either looking or listening, I'd argue they both have a similar amount of "soul". And thus, any distinction between them exists mainly in your head.
- lightedman 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

shvdle 1y ago

The entire point of a diamond is that it’s expensive. People buy them for status. Otherwise there are lots of gems that are much more prettier, but they are not as expensive. It’s like saying people will stop buying branded clothes because unbranded clothes have the same or even a higher quality for a fraction of the price. Kinda misses the point.

jqpabc123 1y ago
It’s like saying people will stop buying branded clothes because unbranded clothes have the same or even a higher quality for a fraction of the price. People buy inferior, counterfeit merchandise all the time because they can't tell the difference. But there is nothing inferior or counterfeit about a manmade diamond. It is *exactly* the same material as a natural one.
- shvdle 1y ago
  You miss the point. The only reason to buy a diamond is that it is expensive. It doesn’t matter if you could buy the same thing cheaper. It doesn’t matter that there are better gems that are cheaper. You buy the diamond to show that you can afford it. You buy someone a diamond to prove how much they are worth to you. Yes, you can buy a man-made diamond the same you can buy counterfeit branded clothes. That only shows that you’re tasteless and that you can’t afford the real thing.
  - jqpabc123 1y ago
    You miss the point. If it is strictly about the money, a larger man made diamond can easily cost just as much as a smaller natural one --- while instantly conveying to the untrained eye the appearance of being more expensive.
    - michaelt 1y ago
      I suspect there is pressure in the opposite direction these days. If you see someone wearing a 6-carat diamond, you know it's either a $100,000 natural diamond, or a $4,000 lab-grown diamond. And you'll assume it's the latter, as far more people can afford the latter. On the other hand, a 1-carat diamond would be more like $2000 natural, $300 lab-grown, making it far more believable that it was natural.

mathiaspoint 1y ago

It was never about the rocks. Like nearly everything else in the economy it's really about attention.

jqpabc123 1y ago
The attention from a man made diamond is indistinguishable from a natural one to most people.
- cwmoore 1y ago
  I think this is true, manmade diamonds are valuable in a way that counterfeit currency is not. But "most people" may not be as important as people who know the story of, and the person wearing, the gem, and provenance is always a meaningful point of reference for expensive luxury items. My screenshots of NFTs are pixel accurate, but not exactly as valuable as the real thing.
  - mathiaspoint 1y ago
    Yeah it goes both ways too. As they say it's the thought that counts.
  - dplgk 1y ago
    It seems we've all come down to the reality that the screenshot of an nft is exactly as valuable as the nft.

xhkkffbf 1y ago

I've bought some lab created diamonds made with CVD. THey're great. If anything, they're too clear. I recommend to all newly engaged couples to buy them and save the money for more important things like raising children or buying a home. And if you look on eBay, you can get CVD diamonds for even less. (At a bit of a risk, of course.)

JKCalhoun 1y ago
Any reputable places to get them that you know of?
- xhkkffbf 1y ago
  No. But some of the eBay prices are so cheap that you can just risk it. And if it looks nice, that's all you can ask.

ooterness 1y ago

Like all other forms of carbon, diamonds will combust in the presence of oxygen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfa-cKDzYSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfa-cKDzYSg

dehrmann 1y ago
You can also use the resulting CO2 to do CO2 things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wvDwSnzcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0wvDwSnzcw