5 ms·

Yeah, if there's overwhelming superiority, why not? But a lot of surgeries are special corner cases. How do you train for those?

deleted 1y ago
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myhf 1y ago
I don't care whether human surgeons or robotic surgeons are better at what they do. I just want more money to go to whoever owns the equipment, and less to go to people in my community. It's called capitalism, sweaty
- aydyn 1y ago
  based
Tadpole9181 1y ago
By collecting data where you can and further generalizing models so they can perform surgeries that it wasn't specifically trained on. Until then, the overseeing physician identifies when an edge case is happening and steps in for a manual surgery. This isn't a mandate that every surgery must be done with an AI-powered robot, but that they are becoming more effective and cheaper than real doctors at the surgeries they can perform. So, naturally, they will become more frequently used.
rahimnathwani 1y ago
Who do you think has seen more corner cases? A) All the DaVinci robots that have ever been used for a particular type of surgery. B) The most experienced surgeon of that specialty.
- kingkawn 1y ago
  The most experienced surgeon bc the robots are only given cases that fit within their rubric of use cases and the people handle edge cases
  - rahimnathwani 1y ago
    Incorrect. DaVinci robots are operated by surgeons themselves, using electronic controls.
    - kingkawn 1y ago
      Correct. I know that. Still the robots are not used outside of their designated use cases and People still handle by hand the sort of edge cases that are the topic of concern in this context
    - yahoozoo 1y ago
      Da Vinci robots don’t know they were used for those edge cases.
- hansmayer 1y ago
  ...Except that a surgeon can reason in real-time even if he wasn´t "trained" on a specific edge-case. Its called intelligence. And unless they have been taking heavy drugs ahead of the procedure, or were sleep deprived, its very un-likely a surgeon will have a hallucination, of the kind that is practically a feature of the GenAI.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    AI “hallucination” is more like confabulation than hallucination in humans (the chosen name the AI phenomenon was poor because the people choosing it don't understand thr domain it was chosen from, which is somewhat amusing given the nominal goal of their field); the risk factors for that aren't as much heavy drugs and sleep deprivation as immediate pressure to speak/act, absence of the knowledge needed, and absence of the opportunity or social permission to seek third-party input. In principle, though, yes, the preparation of the people in the room should make that less likely and less likely to be uncorrected in a human-conducted surgery.
    - hansmayer 1y ago
      I guess my point was less about the nuances of how we define 'hallucination' for a GenAI system, and more about the important part - not having my liver accidentally removed because the Surgery-ChatGPT had a hickup, or the rate limit was reached or whatever.
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myhf 1y ago

I don't care whether human surgeons or robotic surgeons are better at what they do. I just want more money to go to whoever owns the equipment, and less to go to people in my community. It's called capitalism, sweaty

aydyn 1y ago
based

Tadpole9181 1y ago

By collecting data where you can and further generalizing models so they can perform surgeries that it wasn't specifically trained on. Until then, the overseeing physician identifies when an edge case is happening and steps in for a manual surgery. This isn't a mandate that every surgery must be done with an AI-powered robot, but that they are becoming more effective and cheaper than real doctors at the surgeries they can perform. So, naturally, they will become more frequently used.

rahimnathwani 1y ago

Who do you think has seen more corner cases? A) All the DaVinci robots that have ever been used for a particular type of surgery. B) The most experienced surgeon of that specialty.

kingkawn 1y ago
The most experienced surgeon bc the robots are only given cases that fit within their rubric of use cases and the people handle edge cases
- rahimnathwani 1y ago
  Incorrect. DaVinci robots are operated by surgeons themselves, using electronic controls.
  - kingkawn 1y ago
    Correct. I know that. Still the robots are not used outside of their designated use cases and People still handle by hand the sort of edge cases that are the topic of concern in this context
  - yahoozoo 1y ago
    Da Vinci robots don’t know they were used for those edge cases.
hansmayer 1y ago
...Except that a surgeon can reason in real-time even if he wasn´t "trained" on a specific edge-case. Its called intelligence. And unless they have been taking heavy drugs ahead of the procedure, or were sleep deprived, its very un-likely a surgeon will have a hallucination, of the kind that is practically a feature of the GenAI.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  AI “hallucination” is more like confabulation than hallucination in humans (the chosen name the AI phenomenon was poor because the people choosing it don't understand thr domain it was chosen from, which is somewhat amusing given the nominal goal of their field); the risk factors for that aren't as much heavy drugs and sleep deprivation as immediate pressure to speak/act, absence of the knowledge needed, and absence of the opportunity or social permission to seek third-party input. In principle, though, yes, the preparation of the people in the room should make that less likely and less likely to be uncorrected in a human-conducted surgery.
  - hansmayer 1y ago
    I guess my point was less about the nuances of how we define 'hallucination' for a GenAI system, and more about the important part - not having my liver accidentally removed because the Surgery-ChatGPT had a hickup, or the rate limit was reached or whatever.

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