5 ms·

Jiro's Dream

92 points by enra 14y ago

petercooper 14y ago
This is why I collect screenshots of UI elements and Web pages I think look good (several thousand in the last 10 years). I was the typical "I can't do design!" developer for years, but if you pay attention to and record your tastes then your skill level will slowly begin to close the gap.
- enra 14y ago
  That's a key that when start paying even a little attention and collecting things you feel are good, you start to also see things that are not that good.
- sthatipamala 14y ago
  It's been posted countless times but Ira Glass (radio personality and host of "This American Life") has very similar advice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI23U7U2aUY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI23U7U2aUY
  - petercooper 14y ago
    I knew I was summoning up my taste-vs-talent terminology from something I'd read/heard but couldn't remember what. That's exactly what it was - thanks! :-)
- relix 14y ago
  How do you collect them, just in a directory or do you use some tool? I also collect sites and web-apps who's UI/design I really like on my personal wiki system, but it has a lot of flaws, i.e. they're not screenshots so if the site changes I lose the UI. Would love to hear how other people manage this.
wahnfrieden 14y ago
Tangential, but I just ate at Sukiyabashi Jiro last week and it was incredible. They were much friendlier than sometimes portrayed too.
- phaus 14y ago
  Was it worth almost $400 per person? Or $19 for each piece of sushi? I'm not surprised that they were very friendly. Most of the people in the documentary stated that Jiro has a "stern" appearance when he's making sushi. From my experience, I find that people often mistake concentration for anger.
  - acangiano 14y ago
    I would imagine that the story alone is worth as much.
  - wahnfrieden 14y ago
    As with many things it's diminishing returns, but I can easily say it far exceeded any other I'd had (and I used to live there). Whether it's worth the money is up to you. It was for me, though I won't be coming back for the same omakase again. I'd go back for a few individual ones that stood out. The omakase course is IMO the right way to get the full experience your first time. It also wasn't as rushed as I've read, though it wasn't a full house when I went. The course lasted at least a half hour, then we were seated at a table with watermelon and tea and however much time we wanted to wind down.
    - wahnfrieden 14y ago
      Some notes if you want to visit: They seem to require you make a reservation from a Japanese number. They will direct you to their (lesser or at least much different) Roppongi branch if you're not a fluent/native speaker, so get a friend in Japan to do it for you. You can only reserve for the following month, so do it on the first day of the previous month. This means that you'll probably have to plan your trip around the reservation you're able to get.
noirman 14y ago
"75 years rule" is the new "10,000 hours rule".
- rdl 14y ago
  If life extension pans out, imagine how awesome it would be if experts easily could spend 75 years perfecting their craft without dedicating their entire lives.
skibrah 14y ago
I agree with the OP, but the most important part of Jiro's philosophy is his believe that one must choose a craft and dedicate one's life to perfecting it. If this is the mindset that you take towards your work, you will naturally seek out the best in your field and learn what they do best to incorporate it into your own approach.
- eyevariety 14y ago
  Daniel Pink's "Drive" is a manifesto around this idea. I think all craftsmen should read it.
- arkitaip 14y ago
  Is there such a thing as craft in programming? Our industry changes so fast that it's difficult to imagine anyone becoming a master craftsman.
  - petercooper 14y ago
    Yes. At least, a lot of people claim there is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_craftsmanship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_craftsmanship I'm not particularly a fan of the "software craftsman" moniker/movement but I think there can be craft to it. Technologies come and go but programming language paradigms, core algorithms, and fundamental ways of working with code tend to remain similar across the decades.
nkurz 14y ago
99% Positive with critics on Rotten Tomatoes: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jiro_dreams_of_sushi/ http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jiro_dreams_of_sushi/ Available for free streaming with Amazon Prime: http://www.amazon.com/Jiro-Dreams-of-Sushi/dp/B008ODZEQ0 http://www.amazon.com/Jiro-Dreams-of-Sushi/dp/B008ODZEQ0 Or streaming for Netflix subscribers: https://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Jiro_Dreams_of_Sushi/70181716 https://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Jiro_Dreams_of_Sushi/7018...
joezydeco 14y ago
I watched this movie on a flight home recently and loved it. Loved the man, loved that he found a calling and stuck to it, loved that he never changed a thing and won worldwide acclaim because of it. Then I got home and read Ebert's review. This paragraph hit me like a punch to the stomach and put it all in perspective: "Even at the high prices of his premium fresh ingredients, you realize he must be a rich man. But to what end? The existence of his sons are an indication that he has a wife, although we never see her. He must have a home, although we never visit it. There must be hours when he cannot be at work, but the film indicates no amusements, hobbies or pastimes. The idea of his courtship of his wife fascinates me: Forgive me, but I imagine that even while making love, he must be fretting about the loss of valuable sushi-making time." http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120404/REVIEWS/120409996 http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20...
- ojiikun 14y ago
  Have a great care in how you attempt to cast Japanese priorities into your western morals. Devotion to work is devotion to family. Selflessness is expressed via success, not conspicuous gratification. Joy is found in greatness, not triviality or distraction. Speaking of oneself in terms of happiness is very different that speaking on fulfilment. I would actually urge any westerner to go study a semester or two of Japanese language (not culture), purely for the calm insight it can provide into the alternatives to our way of seeing, understanding, and acting upon the world.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > I would actually urge any westerner to go study a semester or two of Japanese language (not culture), purely for the calm insight it can provide into the alternatives to our way of seeing, understanding, and acting upon the world. I have to agree with this. The first foreign language I studied was French, and it taught me almost nothing - everything was so similar to English that most things were just a matter of memorization and one-to-one conversion. I quickly lost interest. But Japanese has been entirely different. When you speak in Japanese, the way you think is different from when you speak in a Western language, such as English. The culture is inextricably tied to the language, and if you learn the language and then get a chance to actually visit the country and use it in real-life situations, it all clicks - why the language is structured how it is, and how it shapes all of Japanese society into its unique form.
pgambling 14y ago
Coincidentally, I watched "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" this evening, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see it on the front page of HN. I was absolutely fascinated by Jiro, and I couldn't stop thinking about how his advice is applicable to honing you software development skills. Jiro never stops trying to improve in all facets of his craft, including the seemingly minor details. I agree with the Roger Ebert quote that it's clear he sacrificed much of his family life to obtain this mastery. Jiro even admits that he wasn't a good father. However, if you love what you do, as he does, then I can't fault him for it. We'd be so fortunate to have that kind of passion.
- noirman 14y ago
  Jiro Dreams of Sushi was probably on the front page for more than couple of times. Here's one just 2 days earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4462539 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4462539
iandanforth 14y ago
I am now $120 poorer thanks to this 'free' movie. After watching this movie you may be tempted to find your nearest high quality sushi restaurant, sit at the bar and ask the Chef to make you whatever he sees fit. This is a delicious but very expensive idea. I did get to try a number of dishes that I would never have ordered though ... all thanks to Jiro.
- NeilRShah 14y ago
  Ha! The exact same thing happened to me. If you are in DC I highly recommend the tasting menu at Sushi Taro. Very similar experience to the film - 10 courses of amazing food (although it includes some non sushi items as well).
noonespecial 14y ago
"But just when you think you know it all, you realize that you're just fooling yourself... and then you get depressed." --A Fish Vendor
- wdewind 14y ago
  The look he gives the camera after saying that is priceless.
utopkara 14y ago
If you have a master of a trade in your family, you will know the weight of the title master, and the respect that comes with the excellence in detail. You will also know by example that a master is a person of search and tinkering not unlike a child, while knowing the depth of the trade from both experience and learning from others. Jiro is lucky that he can continue his trade at age 85. We are lucky to observe a real master we can look up to.

92 points by enra 14y ago

This is why I collect screenshots of UI elements and Web pages I think look good (several thousand in the last 10 years). I was the typical "I can't do design!" developer for years, but if you pay attention to and record your tastes then your skill level will slowly begin to close the gap.

enra 14y ago
That's a key that when start paying even a little attention and collecting things you feel are good, you start to also see things that are not that good.
sthatipamala 14y ago
It's been posted countless times but Ira Glass (radio personality and host of "This American Life") has very similar advice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI23U7U2aUY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI23U7U2aUY
- petercooper 14y ago
  I knew I was summoning up my taste-vs-talent terminology from something I'd read/heard but couldn't remember what. That's exactly what it was - thanks! :-)
relix 14y ago
How do you collect them, just in a directory or do you use some tool? I also collect sites and web-apps who's UI/design I really like on my personal wiki system, but it has a lot of flaws, i.e. they're not screenshots so if the site changes I lose the UI. Would love to hear how other people manage this.

wahnfrieden 14y ago

Tangential, but I just ate at Sukiyabashi Jiro last week and it was incredible. They were much friendlier than sometimes portrayed too.

phaus 14y ago
Was it worth almost $400 per person? Or $19 for each piece of sushi? I'm not surprised that they were very friendly. Most of the people in the documentary stated that Jiro has a "stern" appearance when he's making sushi. From my experience, I find that people often mistake concentration for anger.
- acangiano 14y ago
  I would imagine that the story alone is worth as much.
- wahnfrieden 14y ago
  As with many things it's diminishing returns, but I can easily say it far exceeded any other I'd had (and I used to live there). Whether it's worth the money is up to you. It was for me, though I won't be coming back for the same omakase again. I'd go back for a few individual ones that stood out. The omakase course is IMO the right way to get the full experience your first time. It also wasn't as rushed as I've read, though it wasn't a full house when I went. The course lasted at least a half hour, then we were seated at a table with watermelon and tea and however much time we wanted to wind down.
  - wahnfrieden 14y ago
    Some notes if you want to visit: They seem to require you make a reservation from a Japanese number. They will direct you to their (lesser or at least much different) Roppongi branch if you're not a fluent/native speaker, so get a friend in Japan to do it for you. You can only reserve for the following month, so do it on the first day of the previous month. This means that you'll probably have to plan your trip around the reservation you're able to get.

noirman 14y ago

"75 years rule" is the new "10,000 hours rule".

rdl 14y ago
If life extension pans out, imagine how awesome it would be if experts easily could spend 75 years perfecting their craft without dedicating their entire lives.

skibrah 14y ago

I agree with the OP, but the most important part of Jiro's philosophy is his believe that one must choose a craft and dedicate one's life to perfecting it. If this is the mindset that you take towards your work, you will naturally seek out the best in your field and learn what they do best to incorporate it into your own approach.

eyevariety 14y ago
Daniel Pink's "Drive" is a manifesto around this idea. I think all craftsmen should read it.
arkitaip 14y ago
Is there such a thing as craft in programming? Our industry changes so fast that it's difficult to imagine anyone becoming a master craftsman.
- petercooper 14y ago
  Yes. At least, a lot of people claim there is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_craftsmanship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_craftsmanship I'm not particularly a fan of the "software craftsman" moniker/movement but I think there can be craft to it. Technologies come and go but programming language paradigms, core algorithms, and fundamental ways of working with code tend to remain similar across the decades.

nkurz 14y ago

99% Positive with critics on Rotten Tomatoes: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jiro_dreams_of_sushi/ http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jiro_dreams_of_sushi/ Available for free streaming with Amazon Prime: http://www.amazon.com/Jiro-Dreams-of-Sushi/dp/B008ODZEQ0 http://www.amazon.com/Jiro-Dreams-of-Sushi/dp/B008ODZEQ0 Or streaming for Netflix subscribers: https://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Jiro_Dreams_of_Sushi/70181716 https://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Jiro_Dreams_of_Sushi/7018...

joezydeco 14y ago

I watched this movie on a flight home recently and loved it. Loved the man, loved that he found a calling and stuck to it, loved that he never changed a thing and won worldwide acclaim because of it. Then I got home and read Ebert's review. This paragraph hit me like a punch to the stomach and put it all in perspective: "Even at the high prices of his premium fresh ingredients, you realize he must be a rich man. But to what end? The existence of his sons are an indication that he has a wife, although we never see her. He must have a home, although we never visit it. There must be hours when he cannot be at work, but the film indicates no amusements, hobbies or pastimes. The idea of his courtship of his wife fascinates me: Forgive me, but I imagine that even while making love, he must be fretting about the loss of valuable sushi-making time." http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120404/REVIEWS/120409996 http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20...

ojiikun 14y ago
Have a great care in how you attempt to cast Japanese priorities into your western morals. Devotion to work is devotion to family. Selflessness is expressed via success, not conspicuous gratification. Joy is found in greatness, not triviality or distraction. Speaking of oneself in terms of happiness is very different that speaking on fulfilment. I would actually urge any westerner to go study a semester or two of Japanese language (not culture), purely for the calm insight it can provide into the alternatives to our way of seeing, understanding, and acting upon the world.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > I would actually urge any westerner to go study a semester or two of Japanese language (not culture), purely for the calm insight it can provide into the alternatives to our way of seeing, understanding, and acting upon the world. I have to agree with this. The first foreign language I studied was French, and it taught me almost nothing - everything was so similar to English that most things were just a matter of memorization and one-to-one conversion. I quickly lost interest. But Japanese has been entirely different. When you speak in Japanese, the way you think is different from when you speak in a Western language, such as English. The culture is inextricably tied to the language, and if you learn the language and then get a chance to actually visit the country and use it in real-life situations, it all clicks - why the language is structured how it is, and how it shapes all of Japanese society into its unique form.

pgambling 14y ago

Coincidentally, I watched "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" this evening, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see it on the front page of HN. I was absolutely fascinated by Jiro, and I couldn't stop thinking about how his advice is applicable to honing you software development skills. Jiro never stops trying to improve in all facets of his craft, including the seemingly minor details. I agree with the Roger Ebert quote that it's clear he sacrificed much of his family life to obtain this mastery. Jiro even admits that he wasn't a good father. However, if you love what you do, as he does, then I can't fault him for it. We'd be so fortunate to have that kind of passion.

noirman 14y ago
Jiro Dreams of Sushi was probably on the front page for more than couple of times. Here's one just 2 days earlier: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4462539 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4462539

iandanforth 14y ago

I am now $120 poorer thanks to this 'free' movie. After watching this movie you may be tempted to find your nearest high quality sushi restaurant, sit at the bar and ask the Chef to make you whatever he sees fit. This is a delicious but very expensive idea. I did get to try a number of dishes that I would never have ordered though ... all thanks to Jiro.

NeilRShah 14y ago
Ha! The exact same thing happened to me. If you are in DC I highly recommend the tasting menu at Sushi Taro. Very similar experience to the film - 10 courses of amazing food (although it includes some non sushi items as well).

noonespecial 14y ago

"But just when you think you know it all, you realize that you're just fooling yourself... and then you get depressed." --A Fish Vendor

wdewind 14y ago
The look he gives the camera after saying that is priceless.

utopkara 14y ago

If you have a master of a trade in your family, you will know the weight of the title master, and the respect that comes with the excellence in detail. You will also know by example that a master is a person of search and tinkering not unlike a child, while knowing the depth of the trade from both experience and learning from others. Jiro is lucky that he can continue his trade at age 85. We are lucky to observe a real master we can look up to.