4 ms·

This wasn't a case of an idiot, except perhaps placing the muzzle in a direction that a human would be present. The gun was in the holster, and the entire hols

This wasn't a case of an idiot, except perhaps placing the muzzle in a direction that a human would be present. The gun was in the holster, and the entire holster was removed from the belt and placed on a desk. There's nothing in that course of action that would allow a finger or anything to get into the trigger well. The gun should absolutely not have gone off.

dcrazy 1y ago
I didn’t read nabla’s comment as accusing the deceased of being an idiot. Rather, it was a statement that the military is full of idiots (aka teenage boys) and therefore any standard issue weapon should be designed appropriately. A gun that can go off on its own even when handled properly is the opposite of idiot-proof.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > the military is full of idiots (aka teenage boys) The Air Force is not. (The average Air Force servicemember is older, better educated, better paid and subject to more demands than the average servicemember in the other branches.)
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - cityzen 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - bl4ckneon 1y ago
    I know some people who went into the air force out of high school. They are idiots. Given a large enough group of people you will have examples of just about anything (including idiots) Another example, it's estimated that 1-2% of all military members are part of or connected to an illegal gang organization.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > I know some people who went into the air force out of high school. They are idiots Every population has some idiots in it. My point is the Air Force is difficult to get into, has a high fraction of educated servicemembers [1], has lower turnover and higher pay than the other branches. (Back when we measured IQ, the Air Force had a higher average IQ than the other branches and population.) I know idiots who work at Google. That doesn't it's safe to assume the average person at Google is an idiot. [1] https://www.collegevine.com/faq/90807/most-educated-branch-of-the-military https://www.collegevine.com/faq/90807/most-educated-branch-o...
      - wslh 1y ago
        I'm not sure if this is the message you intended, but it's worth noting that having a high IQ doesn't necessarily prevent someone from being an idiot. Historically the word "idiot" was used particularly with those with very low IQ scores but now is a pejorative term.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        Within the context, we’re talking about someone who can be trusted to be mature with a firearm. That’s more true for an average Air Force servicemember than the average American. I’d reflect OP’e scepticism if we were talking about the average Army, Marine or Navy servicemember, in large part because young men are stupid and the folks in those services skew younger than the Air Force.
  - andrewflnr 1y ago
    Even an "intelligent" (i.e. clever) teenage boy or young man is often still an idiot (i.e. prone to astonishingly bad decisions).
  - hn_acc1 1y ago
    Maybe - although it seems these days, being fundamentalist/evangelical is about the only hard-and-fast requirement..
smithkl42 1y ago
Where did you get those details? I've read a couple stories on this incident and haven't seen that mentioned.
- jeremyjh 1y ago
  I think there is a lot of coverage but this is where I heard the details: https://youtu.be/ssNFf_bMjf8?si=47rN4X7WArPbNckZ https://youtu.be/ssNFf_bMjf8?si=47rN4X7WArPbNckZ
homefree 1y ago
If it was in the holster, most people don't teach that the muzzle direction rule applies (since in the holster it's supposed to be inert). A lot of carry methods have the muzzle pointing at things you would not want it pointing at when unholstered.
- OneMorePerson 1y ago
  Yeah agreed. If people taught this than thigh holsters would be out (muzzle direction when sitting down), so would shoulder holsters. Pretty reasonable to expect a gun to not go off randomly, especially when reliable drop safety mechanisms have been around for a long time.
  - SauciestGNU 1y ago
    There's a joke about appendix carry of Sig pistols providing cheap bottom surgery for mtf trans people.
    - OneMorePerson 1y ago
      There's no holster in the world that would convince me to carry any gun in that position hah. I've seen some advertisement for concealed carry holsters that make me cringe. Only carry position that actively aims the gun at you when you sit down or bend over.
  - esseph 1y ago
    Thigh holsters suck anyway, the only people that use them are people that have never had to run in them.
    - OneMorePerson 1y ago
      I've never used one, but I did see a police officer with one once. Maybe there's certain sitting positions or something where it's more comfortable to wear all day.
giantg2 1y ago
"The gun was in the holster, and the entire holster was removed from the belt and placed on a desk." If they can prove this in the investigation, this completely sinks Sig's defense that this can't happen with the upgraded FCU that they released to supposedly fix this issue since it's in all military variants.
- jeremyjh 1y ago
  There is a good chance there is security video coverage. Sig is cooked along with whoever their fanboys are in senior command. Hopefully that means the P226 Legion comes down in price :D

dcrazy 1y ago

I didn’t read nabla’s comment as accusing the deceased of being an idiot. Rather, it was a statement that the military is full of idiots (aka teenage boys) and therefore any standard issue weapon should be designed appropriately. A gun that can go off on its own even when handled properly is the opposite of idiot-proof.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> the military is full of idiots (aka teenage boys) The Air Force is not. (The average Air Force servicemember is older, better educated, better paid and subject to more demands than the average servicemember in the other branches.)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- cityzen 1y ago
  [flagged]
- bl4ckneon 1y ago
  I know some people who went into the air force out of high school. They are idiots. Given a large enough group of people you will have examples of just about anything (including idiots) Another example, it's estimated that 1-2% of all military members are part of or connected to an illegal gang organization.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > I know some people who went into the air force out of high school. They are idiots Every population has some idiots in it. My point is the Air Force is difficult to get into, has a high fraction of educated servicemembers [1], has lower turnover and higher pay than the other branches. (Back when we measured IQ, the Air Force had a higher average IQ than the other branches and population.) I know idiots who work at Google. That doesn't it's safe to assume the average person at Google is an idiot. [1] https://www.collegevine.com/faq/90807/most-educated-branch-of-the-military https://www.collegevine.com/faq/90807/most-educated-branch-o...
    - wslh 1y ago
      I'm not sure if this is the message you intended, but it's worth noting that having a high IQ doesn't necessarily prevent someone from being an idiot. Historically the word "idiot" was used particularly with those with very low IQ scores but now is a pejorative term.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        Within the context, we’re talking about someone who can be trusted to be mature with a firearm. That’s more true for an average Air Force servicemember than the average American. I’d reflect OP’e scepticism if we were talking about the average Army, Marine or Navy servicemember, in large part because young men are stupid and the folks in those services skew younger than the Air Force.
- andrewflnr 1y ago
  Even an "intelligent" (i.e. clever) teenage boy or young man is often still an idiot (i.e. prone to astonishingly bad decisions).
- hn_acc1 1y ago
  Maybe - although it seems these days, being fundamentalist/evangelical is about the only hard-and-fast requirement..

smithkl42 1y ago

Where did you get those details? I've read a couple stories on this incident and haven't seen that mentioned.

jeremyjh 1y ago
I think there is a lot of coverage but this is where I heard the details: https://youtu.be/ssNFf_bMjf8?si=47rN4X7WArPbNckZ https://youtu.be/ssNFf_bMjf8?si=47rN4X7WArPbNckZ

homefree 1y ago

If it was in the holster, most people don't teach that the muzzle direction rule applies (since in the holster it's supposed to be inert). A lot of carry methods have the muzzle pointing at things you would not want it pointing at when unholstered.

OneMorePerson 1y ago
Yeah agreed. If people taught this than thigh holsters would be out (muzzle direction when sitting down), so would shoulder holsters. Pretty reasonable to expect a gun to not go off randomly, especially when reliable drop safety mechanisms have been around for a long time.
- SauciestGNU 1y ago
  There's a joke about appendix carry of Sig pistols providing cheap bottom surgery for mtf trans people.
  - OneMorePerson 1y ago
    There's no holster in the world that would convince me to carry any gun in that position hah. I've seen some advertisement for concealed carry holsters that make me cringe. Only carry position that actively aims the gun at you when you sit down or bend over.
- esseph 1y ago
  Thigh holsters suck anyway, the only people that use them are people that have never had to run in them.
  - OneMorePerson 1y ago
    I've never used one, but I did see a police officer with one once. Maybe there's certain sitting positions or something where it's more comfortable to wear all day.

giantg2 1y ago

"The gun was in the holster, and the entire holster was removed from the belt and placed on a desk." If they can prove this in the investigation, this completely sinks Sig's defense that this can't happen with the upgraded FCU that they released to supposedly fix this issue since it's in all military variants.

jeremyjh 1y ago
There is a good chance there is security video coverage. Sig is cooked along with whoever their fanboys are in senior command. Hopefully that means the P226 Legion comes down in price :D