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The volume of emotion running through the discourse on LLMs feel qualitatively different compared to something like bitcoin.

by oidar 1y ago

poly2it 1y ago
I'm so tired of it. Lobste.rs has become unusable due to the endless echoes of resentment.
- logicchains 1y ago
  Have some empathy. Even if it's not certain, there's a non-zero possibility that a large number of developer jobs (especially those focused purely on coding) will go the way of factory workers and switchboard operators, and if that happened it'd be a very tough transition for many people.
  - isaacremuant 1y ago
    I think there's just droves of people who came to software thinking it was the new stable, solid, good reputation way to make money sitting in front of a computer. I saw so many people who were not following what they liked but "a good choice". Now many are scared instead of excited and/or skeptical because they don't trust their own self and ability to reinvent all the time. We do change a lot of practices in short periods of time. This is similar to an extent. Learning and guiding this new world is extremely interesting. You don't need to lie like a CEO either. Just solve, guide and build the new challenges.
johnfn 1y ago
I seem to recall an endless string of comments mockingly reporting that "crypto bros" were "speedrunning the discovery of every financial regulation" every time a new crypto news article popped up anywhere. You could have set your watch to it.
mperham 1y ago
One could mostly ignore Bitcoin. AI usage and its network effects are much more widespread and often place additional work on me, even if I choose not to use AI directly. Incorrect issues or pull requests, unmaintainable heaps of code, etc.
ninetyninenine 1y ago
Crypto doesn’t have implications of replacing your programming skills.
fragmede 1y ago
At the end of the day Bitcoin is a networked technology. It's worthless to me if you/the store/landlord/taxman won't take it, and most of them don't, so its value is only between adherents, which means, sure, I can buy some, but then what? Use it to buy something sketchy online? Meanwhile, anyone can go to chat.com and ask for code to do whatever they ask. Some questions it will answer well, others it will not. Because we're discussing this in the abstract, LLM good!/LLM bad! Grar!, and barely touching on details, like the programming language, the libraries, nevermind sharing the prompts, both camps are convinced they're right, with much more furvor than Bitcoin. Additionally the technology is evolving so fast that someone's bad experience from a couple months ago is already out of date. Meanwhile, how many times can you have the same argument about Bitcoin? There are a couple details here and there, but nothing structurally changed with Bitcoin since its inception. Which is a shame, if they'd managed to fork so transactions weren't horribly slow, maybe we'd be having a different discussion. But I digress. The volume of emotion is different, not because of the money swimming around, of which there is a lot, but because we're arguing over things we see with our own eyes but aren't giving enough detail to have productive discussions about. Insulting people adds to the emotionally charged nature. Things like "If you find LLMs used, it's because you're a bad programmer/an idiot/only work on loser problems" or "AIs going to put you out of a job" don't encourage reasonable nuanced discussion. Insulting someone for liking Bitcoin doesn't cut as deep. No one's been working on Bitcoin for four decades and made it their whole (public) identity.
- Karrot_Kream 1y ago
  > No one's been working on Bitcoin for four decades and made it their whole (public) identity. It sounds like a large part of the problem is getting your identity wrapped up into this. Both the CEOs and the devs.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    To be clear, I was referring to programming ability when I was referring to identity, not AI. It's sometimes hard for me to forget that you are not your code.

The volume of emotion running through the discourse on LLMs feel qualitatively different compared to something like bitcoin.

by oidar 1y ago

The volume of emotion running through the discourse on LLMs feel qualitatively different compared to something like bitcoin.

poly2it 1y ago

I'm so tired of it. Lobste.rs has become unusable due to the endless echoes of resentment.

logicchains 1y ago
Have some empathy. Even if it's not certain, there's a non-zero possibility that a large number of developer jobs (especially those focused purely on coding) will go the way of factory workers and switchboard operators, and if that happened it'd be a very tough transition for many people.
- isaacremuant 1y ago
  I think there's just droves of people who came to software thinking it was the new stable, solid, good reputation way to make money sitting in front of a computer. I saw so many people who were not following what they liked but "a good choice". Now many are scared instead of excited and/or skeptical because they don't trust their own self and ability to reinvent all the time. We do change a lot of practices in short periods of time. This is similar to an extent. Learning and guiding this new world is extremely interesting. You don't need to lie like a CEO either. Just solve, guide and build the new challenges.

johnfn 1y ago

I seem to recall an endless string of comments mockingly reporting that "crypto bros" were "speedrunning the discovery of every financial regulation" every time a new crypto news article popped up anywhere. You could have set your watch to it.

mperham 1y ago

One could mostly ignore Bitcoin. AI usage and its network effects are much more widespread and often place additional work on me, even if I choose not to use AI directly. Incorrect issues or pull requests, unmaintainable heaps of code, etc.

ninetyninenine 1y ago

Crypto doesn’t have implications of replacing your programming skills.

fragmede 1y ago

At the end of the day Bitcoin is a networked technology. It's worthless to me if you/the store/landlord/taxman won't take it, and most of them don't, so its value is only between adherents, which means, sure, I can buy some, but then what? Use it to buy something sketchy online? Meanwhile, anyone can go to chat.com and ask for code to do whatever they ask. Some questions it will answer well, others it will not. Because we're discussing this in the abstract, LLM good!/LLM bad! Grar!, and barely touching on details, like the programming language, the libraries, nevermind sharing the prompts, both camps are convinced they're right, with much more furvor than Bitcoin. Additionally the technology is evolving so fast that someone's bad experience from a couple months ago is already out of date. Meanwhile, how many times can you have the same argument about Bitcoin? There are a couple details here and there, but nothing structurally changed with Bitcoin since its inception. Which is a shame, if they'd managed to fork so transactions weren't horribly slow, maybe we'd be having a different discussion. But I digress. The volume of emotion is different, not because of the money swimming around, of which there is a lot, but because we're arguing over things we see with our own eyes but aren't giving enough detail to have productive discussions about. Insulting people adds to the emotionally charged nature. Things like "If you find LLMs used, it's because you're a bad programmer/an idiot/only work on loser problems" or "AIs going to put you out of a job" don't encourage reasonable nuanced discussion. Insulting someone for liking Bitcoin doesn't cut as deep. No one's been working on Bitcoin for four decades and made it their whole (public) identity.

Karrot_Kream 1y ago
> No one's been working on Bitcoin for four decades and made it their whole (public) identity. It sounds like a large part of the problem is getting your identity wrapped up into this. Both the CEOs and the devs.
- fragmede 1y ago
  To be clear, I was referring to programming ability when I was referring to identity, not AI. It's sometimes hard for me to forget that you are not your code.