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The worst thing about kotlin is the intellij lock in. VSCode support is exceptionally poor and that makes using modern AI tooling (like cursor) a pain.

PaulHoule 1y ago
Java has also improved greatly since JDK 7 so the need for JDK languages that are Java, but just a little better, is less than it was.
- smith7018 1y ago
  Kotlin is much better than "Java, but just a little better."
  - c03 1y ago
    Kotlin has everything. A language isn't better just because it has more. Its great for DSLs though.
    - PaulHoule 1y ago
      Java is pretty good for DSLs too.
      - ohdeargodno 1y ago
        Language.Builder().getOh().getYes().getJava().getIsSoNice().setFor(() -> { return "DSLs";}); No trailing lambdas, no infix operators, no @DslMarkers, no top level functions, and an infinite list of examples of Java verbosity making even the smallest thing look like an ancient greek epic. Java is utterly terrible for DSLs.
        vips7L 1y ago
        Language { oh { yes { Java { isSoNice } } } You can contrive awfulness in any language.
        PaulHoule 1y ago
        The awfulness of one style of Java DSL is the awfulness of Lisp, that is building(of(S("expressions"),everything())
        vips7L 1y ago
        Not going to lie, my brain doesn't really comprehend lisp. So the joke (or point?) is way over my head.
- BrandonSmith 1y ago
  Kotlin ecosystem extends way beyond the Java runtime. I have apps developed in Kotlin running in browsers and iOS, in addition to Android.
  - vips7L 1y ago
    You can do that in Java too. TeaVM, JavaFX, pick your poison.
llm_nerd 1y ago
When did you last use IntelliJ? It has excellent AI tooling.
jlengrand 1y ago
Won’t be true for long any more since they just officially announced they’ll be releasing the language server.
kle 1y ago
I agree, but I can strongly recommend Claude Code with the Intellij plugin. Actually works pretty great for kotlin! And, JetBrains finally started working on an open language server. It's not perfect but it makes it bearable to at least edit Kotlin in Cursor/VS Code. https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/27310-claude-code-beta- https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/27310-claude-code-beta- https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp
cardanome 1y ago
I just have Cursor open in another window for the agent mode while I do my editing with intellij (or other jetbrains products). I would never voluntary do any editing in VS Code or forks of it. It is just so slugish on large files. Plus there is always subtle things that annoy me, I can't even describe it, it just feels off. I hope Zed takes off as it is a bit more tolerable though still not there yet.
simon_void 1y ago
Jetbrains is working on an LSP: https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp It was announced at KotlinConf 2025.

PaulHoule 1y ago

Java has also improved greatly since JDK 7 so the need for JDK languages that are Java, but just a little better, is less than it was.

smith7018 1y ago
Kotlin is much better than "Java, but just a little better."
- c03 1y ago
  Kotlin has everything. A language isn't better just because it has more. Its great for DSLs though.
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    Java is pretty good for DSLs too.
    - ohdeargodno 1y ago
      Language.Builder().getOh().getYes().getJava().getIsSoNice().setFor(() -> { return "DSLs";}); No trailing lambdas, no infix operators, no @DslMarkers, no top level functions, and an infinite list of examples of Java verbosity making even the smallest thing look like an ancient greek epic. Java is utterly terrible for DSLs.
      - vips7L 1y ago
        Language { oh { yes { Java { isSoNice } } } You can contrive awfulness in any language.
        PaulHoule 1y ago
        The awfulness of one style of Java DSL is the awfulness of Lisp, that is building(of(S("expressions"),everything())
        vips7L 1y ago
        Not going to lie, my brain doesn't really comprehend lisp. So the joke (or point?) is way over my head.
BrandonSmith 1y ago
Kotlin ecosystem extends way beyond the Java runtime. I have apps developed in Kotlin running in browsers and iOS, in addition to Android.
- vips7L 1y ago
  You can do that in Java too. TeaVM, JavaFX, pick your poison.

llm_nerd 1y ago

When did you last use IntelliJ? It has excellent AI tooling.

jlengrand 1y ago

Won’t be true for long any more since they just officially announced they’ll be releasing the language server.

kle 1y ago

I agree, but I can strongly recommend Claude Code with the Intellij plugin. Actually works pretty great for kotlin! And, JetBrains finally started working on an open language server. It's not perfect but it makes it bearable to at least edit Kotlin in Cursor/VS Code. https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/27310-claude-code-beta- https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/27310-claude-code-beta- https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp

cardanome 1y ago

I just have Cursor open in another window for the agent mode while I do my editing with intellij (or other jetbrains products). I would never voluntary do any editing in VS Code or forks of it. It is just so slugish on large files. Plus there is always subtle things that annoy me, I can't even describe it, it just feels off. I hope Zed takes off as it is a bit more tolerable though still not there yet.

simon_void 1y ago

Jetbrains is working on an LSP: https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-lsp It was announced at KotlinConf 2025.