4 ms·

And, you can make much lighter and lower range electric cars without all those heavy batteries, and boost the range with diesel when needed. Very attractive in

by mort96 1y ago

And, you can make much lighter and lower range electric cars without all those heavy batteries, and boost the range with diesel when needed. Very attractive in principle. Most cars are not using their full range all the time, for a lot of people a 50 mile range car would be more than enough 98% of the time, but that remaining 2% means that people end up buying 200 mile range cars instead. But then, do you end up removing enough battery weight to offset the weight of a whole ICE?

lotsofpulp 1y ago
Smaller cars have always been available, but people have shown a preference for bigger cars where they can sit higher up, even though it costs them more.
- mort96 1y ago
  I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about range and weight. You can have a huge car or a smaller car, going from a 90kWh battery pack to a 30kWh battery pack is gonna have the same weight saving in both
- andrepd 1y ago
  Maybe they should be at least charged for the catastrophic externalities that that "preference" results in.
- eldaisfish 1y ago
  does "preference" equate to endless, manipulative advertising from car manufacturers? Or, perhaps, the "preference" of higher profit margins from larger cars, pushing manufacturers to entirely abandon reasonably sized cars?
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    "Everyone who doesn't want what I want them to want has been brainwashed by corporate interests" is not a robust assertion under even the most casual scrutiny. I hate to break it to you but something like a Rogue or HRV does circles around an Altima or Civic when it comes to daily flexibility and utility for a fairly paltry additional cost. It doesn't take a degree in rocket surgery to figure out why they fly off the shelves. For the average person they're a good combination of attributes.
    - eldaisfish 1y ago
      The North American market now only includes a handful of sedans. Meanwhile, Hyundai and Toyota somehow manage to sell “tiny” cars in Korea, Japan and lots of developing countries. A practical car is a station wagon, not an SUV, many of which have less storage space. Please, cut the needless snark. People do buy vehicles for edge cases but the lack of smaller, practical vehicles is driven is large part by manufacturer profit.
      - potato3732842 1y ago
        Many of those tiny foreign cars are unfortunately not economically useful to sell in the regulated markets of the rich west, and even when they are they often aren't without the developing nation sales volume to amortize a lot of the fixed costs over. I agree that there's a lot of stupidity going on when it comes to station wagons vs crossovers vs compact SUVs and the OEMs really do SUV-ify a lot of things that ought not to be. The shape of these vehicles is fairly preordained by the nature of the fuel economy regulations and wind resistance and other regulations that apply equally to all of them. You're not gonna find "more space" in something like a Subaru Outback by squashing it on the vertical axis unless you stretch it in another dimension or find somewhere else to find space. Maybe you might be able to eek out a slightly better angle on the hatch or something but it ain't gonna be much. Fuel economy regulations make cars with thicc asses like the big sedans and station wagons of yesterday nonsensical. The snark is not needless. It is tautologically impossible for the overwhelming majority of people do be "doing it wrong" on a matter that is in large part a subjective one of preference. If someone wants to assert that then I will talk down to them. People buy these small SUVs left and right because they're seemingly the best option when it comes to well rounded boring A to B vehicles.
      - silverquiet 1y ago
        I think the crossover is pretty much the modern station wagon. I suppose they get marketed as SUV's but they're basically just a bit longer and taller car vs what I'd consider a "real" SUV; an enclosed truck chassis.
  - elyobo 1y ago
    also once everybody else is obstructing your view with a bigger car it becomes necessary to have a bigger one, it's a race to the metaphorical bototm
pmg101 1y ago
I thought about PHEV but in the end went full EV simply because it seemed to me with two whole power trains that's 2x the components to go wrong/need maintenance.
- happyPersonR 1y ago
  This. This times 100x . Also, it’s not like each powertrain has an independent failure mode. If either break, your car is a brick until it’s fixed.
  - silverquiet 1y ago
    I have a friend who drives a Chevy Volt with a dead ICE engine; she just charges the battery and uses it as a (rather short range) pure EV vehicle. Not ideal, but it works for her until she gets something else.
    - throwawaylaptop 1y ago
      If she was in California she wouldn't be able to pass smog at her next inspection, which is a funny problem considering she drives in pure EV mode now.
- mort96 1y ago
  Oh I agree completely. I'm driving an old diesel now but I have no desire to get a hybrid, I'd get a pure EV if I were to buy a new car. But there are some tempting things in principle about plug-in hybrids
- m_fayer 1y ago
  That same insight applies to regular hybrids, and yet Toyota’s hybrids are legendary for their durability. There’s a reason half the cabs where I live are Prius station wagons, and it’s not their efficiency, judging by how they’re driven.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago

by mort96 1y ago

lotsofpulp 1y ago

Smaller cars have always been available, but people have shown a preference for bigger cars where they can sit higher up, even though it costs them more.

mort96 1y ago
I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about range and weight. You can have a huge car or a smaller car, going from a 90kWh battery pack to a 30kWh battery pack is gonna have the same weight saving in both
andrepd 1y ago
Maybe they should be at least charged for the catastrophic externalities that that "preference" results in.
eldaisfish 1y ago
does "preference" equate to endless, manipulative advertising from car manufacturers? Or, perhaps, the "preference" of higher profit margins from larger cars, pushing manufacturers to entirely abandon reasonably sized cars?
- potato3732842 1y ago
  "Everyone who doesn't want what I want them to want has been brainwashed by corporate interests" is not a robust assertion under even the most casual scrutiny. I hate to break it to you but something like a Rogue or HRV does circles around an Altima or Civic when it comes to daily flexibility and utility for a fairly paltry additional cost. It doesn't take a degree in rocket surgery to figure out why they fly off the shelves. For the average person they're a good combination of attributes.
  - eldaisfish 1y ago
    The North American market now only includes a handful of sedans. Meanwhile, Hyundai and Toyota somehow manage to sell “tiny” cars in Korea, Japan and lots of developing countries. A practical car is a station wagon, not an SUV, many of which have less storage space. Please, cut the needless snark. People do buy vehicles for edge cases but the lack of smaller, practical vehicles is driven is large part by manufacturer profit.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      Many of those tiny foreign cars are unfortunately not economically useful to sell in the regulated markets of the rich west, and even when they are they often aren't without the developing nation sales volume to amortize a lot of the fixed costs over. I agree that there's a lot of stupidity going on when it comes to station wagons vs crossovers vs compact SUVs and the OEMs really do SUV-ify a lot of things that ought not to be. The shape of these vehicles is fairly preordained by the nature of the fuel economy regulations and wind resistance and other regulations that apply equally to all of them. You're not gonna find "more space" in something like a Subaru Outback by squashing it on the vertical axis unless you stretch it in another dimension or find somewhere else to find space. Maybe you might be able to eek out a slightly better angle on the hatch or something but it ain't gonna be much. Fuel economy regulations make cars with thicc asses like the big sedans and station wagons of yesterday nonsensical. The snark is not needless. It is tautologically impossible for the overwhelming majority of people do be "doing it wrong" on a matter that is in large part a subjective one of preference. If someone wants to assert that then I will talk down to them. People buy these small SUVs left and right because they're seemingly the best option when it comes to well rounded boring A to B vehicles.
    - silverquiet 1y ago
      I think the crossover is pretty much the modern station wagon. I suppose they get marketed as SUV's but they're basically just a bit longer and taller car vs what I'd consider a "real" SUV; an enclosed truck chassis.
- elyobo 1y ago
  also once everybody else is obstructing your view with a bigger car it becomes necessary to have a bigger one, it's a race to the metaphorical bototm

pmg101 1y ago

I thought about PHEV but in the end went full EV simply because it seemed to me with two whole power trains that's 2x the components to go wrong/need maintenance.

happyPersonR 1y ago
This. This times 100x . Also, it’s not like each powertrain has an independent failure mode. If either break, your car is a brick until it’s fixed.
- silverquiet 1y ago
  I have a friend who drives a Chevy Volt with a dead ICE engine; she just charges the battery and uses it as a (rather short range) pure EV vehicle. Not ideal, but it works for her until she gets something else.
  - throwawaylaptop 1y ago
    If she was in California she wouldn't be able to pass smog at her next inspection, which is a funny problem considering she drives in pure EV mode now.
mort96 1y ago
Oh I agree completely. I'm driving an old diesel now but I have no desire to get a hybrid, I'd get a pure EV if I were to buy a new car. But there are some tempting things in principle about plug-in hybrids
m_fayer 1y ago
That same insight applies to regular hybrids, and yet Toyota’s hybrids are legendary for their durability. There’s a reason half the cabs where I live are Prius station wagons, and it’s not their efficiency, judging by how they’re driven.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago