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China has built its tech empire on years of IP theft and disregard for creator rights, the answer isn't to copy that behaviour, it's to double down on fairness,

by pyman 1y ago

China has built its tech empire on years of IP theft and disregard for creator rights, the answer isn't to copy that behaviour, it's to double down on fairness, transparency, and proper compensation. Don't you think? If everyone else is playing by the rules except China, it's easier to hold them accountable.

OutOfHere 1y ago
No, I don't think so. China is a sovereign country and there is no holding it accountable. Moreover, the entire world will then be using Chinese AI.
- pyman 1y ago
  There are two paths: 1) do whatever it takes, like China, even if it's illegal, to win the AI race. Or 2) governments that play by the rules can introduce regulations and the rest of the world can ban the use of Chinese AI.
  - OutOfHere 1y ago
    No, it's not illegal in China. It is a sovereign country that doesn't have to respect your silly laws or your silly self-suiting belief system. It is playing by its own rules. Regarding suggesting a ban of Chinese AI, I don't know which world you're living in, but it's not the real world.
seanmcdirmid 1y ago
The history of industry and technology of the world is just one of IP theft. Long term IP diffuses, you can’t really stop it with anything short of impassable boundaries. If China trains better models than the rest of the world by using all the data it can acquire, it will simply win. You can’t throw China in jail for not playing by same rules as other countries, you can’t economically isolate it longer than a few years, and even then 70-80% of the world won’t care about embargoes even in those few years. The best solutions will diffuse into the world eventually.
- pyman 1y ago
  What does it mean to win the AI race?
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    It means you have the best toys (products, tech, services) that AI enables. And you get to sell them to the rest of the world vs. your competitors (who have to catch up).
    - pyman 1y ago
      Winning the AI race gives China or the US a commercial advantage, but only if the rest of the world allows it. That advantage can be regulated. For example, in America and Europe people don't use WeChat, and in China they don't use ChatGPT. If you're talking about military power, where AI gives an edge in cyber security and warfare, then China has already won. They are ahead in tech, AI and quantum computing. The moment you step foot in China you realise they're easily ten years ahead. And that didn't happen overnight. It's the result of long term investment in infrastructure, education, and technology. The arches of power are shifting, and the US can't stop it. Companies like OpenAI are built on the promise of developing a secret weapon called AGI that will rebuild the US economy, solve social problems, and give the US a technological edge to control the rest of the world. But that's never going to happen. It's a nice story they tell politicians and regulators to get away with theft and also get investors like Microsoft to give them more infra and money. Question: Did OpenAI made its API publicly available to generate revenue, or share responsibility and distribute the ethical risk with developers, startups, and enterprise customers, hoping that widespread use would eventually influence legal systems over time? Let's be honest, the US government and defence sector has massive budgets for AI, and OpenAI could have taken that route, just like SpaceX did. Especially after claiming they're in a tech war with China. But they didn't, which feels contradictory and raises some red flags.
      - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        If you think about it in terms of game theory, economies that buy and use the best tools can out compete the ones that don't. As long as you have tools that are just as good, this doesn't matter, but as soon as your competitors have better tools, you have to catch up or become irrelevant. China doesn't use ChatGPT, but they have their own AI so whatever, America doesn't use WeChat, but they have WhatsApp so whatever. America doesn't use QR codes for mobile payments like China does but they have credit cards and NFC tap to pay everywhere, so again, not going to create much difference. In fact, before I moved to China in 2007, I already gave up on cash, but had to re-adopt it again while living in China, only to stop using it again when I left in 2016, and on my recent trip in April 2025, I finally could go around and not use cash (like the USA in 2007)! Drone tech probably gives China more of an advantage of Quantum computing in military applications, which everyone is still scratching their head about and anyways...is just a better form of encryption. AI is still up in the air, China still can't economically produce their own high end GPUs, while America can't be bothered to develop infrastructure and skills for rare earths, etc... But if America and Europe cripples themselves in AI development via rigid copyright rules, ya, its a complete win for China.
OutOfHere 1y ago
Stop to think for a second that maybe the concept of "creator rights" is what's nonsense, that everything builds upon everything that came before it. Some people think that "creator rights" is exactly the opposite of fairness. Physics doesn't care who invented or created something. If you want compensation, sell the world something that someone actually wants to pay for.

by pyman 1y ago

OutOfHere 1y ago

No, I don't think so. China is a sovereign country and there is no holding it accountable. Moreover, the entire world will then be using Chinese AI.

pyman 1y ago
There are two paths: 1) do whatever it takes, like China, even if it's illegal, to win the AI race. Or 2) governments that play by the rules can introduce regulations and the rest of the world can ban the use of Chinese AI.
- OutOfHere 1y ago
  No, it's not illegal in China. It is a sovereign country that doesn't have to respect your silly laws or your silly self-suiting belief system. It is playing by its own rules. Regarding suggesting a ban of Chinese AI, I don't know which world you're living in, but it's not the real world.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago

The history of industry and technology of the world is just one of IP theft. Long term IP diffuses, you can’t really stop it with anything short of impassable boundaries. If China trains better models than the rest of the world by using all the data it can acquire, it will simply win. You can’t throw China in jail for not playing by same rules as other countries, you can’t economically isolate it longer than a few years, and even then 70-80% of the world won’t care about embargoes even in those few years. The best solutions will diffuse into the world eventually.

pyman 1y ago
What does it mean to win the AI race?
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  It means you have the best toys (products, tech, services) that AI enables. And you get to sell them to the rest of the world vs. your competitors (who have to catch up).
  - pyman 1y ago
    Winning the AI race gives China or the US a commercial advantage, but only if the rest of the world allows it. That advantage can be regulated. For example, in America and Europe people don't use WeChat, and in China they don't use ChatGPT. If you're talking about military power, where AI gives an edge in cyber security and warfare, then China has already won. They are ahead in tech, AI and quantum computing. The moment you step foot in China you realise they're easily ten years ahead. And that didn't happen overnight. It's the result of long term investment in infrastructure, education, and technology. The arches of power are shifting, and the US can't stop it. Companies like OpenAI are built on the promise of developing a secret weapon called AGI that will rebuild the US economy, solve social problems, and give the US a technological edge to control the rest of the world. But that's never going to happen. It's a nice story they tell politicians and regulators to get away with theft and also get investors like Microsoft to give them more infra and money. Question: Did OpenAI made its API publicly available to generate revenue, or share responsibility and distribute the ethical risk with developers, startups, and enterprise customers, hoping that widespread use would eventually influence legal systems over time? Let's be honest, the US government and defence sector has massive budgets for AI, and OpenAI could have taken that route, just like SpaceX did. Especially after claiming they're in a tech war with China. But they didn't, which feels contradictory and raises some red flags.
    - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
      If you think about it in terms of game theory, economies that buy and use the best tools can out compete the ones that don't. As long as you have tools that are just as good, this doesn't matter, but as soon as your competitors have better tools, you have to catch up or become irrelevant. China doesn't use ChatGPT, but they have their own AI so whatever, America doesn't use WeChat, but they have WhatsApp so whatever. America doesn't use QR codes for mobile payments like China does but they have credit cards and NFC tap to pay everywhere, so again, not going to create much difference. In fact, before I moved to China in 2007, I already gave up on cash, but had to re-adopt it again while living in China, only to stop using it again when I left in 2016, and on my recent trip in April 2025, I finally could go around and not use cash (like the USA in 2007)! Drone tech probably gives China more of an advantage of Quantum computing in military applications, which everyone is still scratching their head about and anyways...is just a better form of encryption. AI is still up in the air, China still can't economically produce their own high end GPUs, while America can't be bothered to develop infrastructure and skills for rare earths, etc... But if America and Europe cripples themselves in AI development via rigid copyright rules, ya, its a complete win for China.

OutOfHere 1y ago

Stop to think for a second that maybe the concept of "creator rights" is what's nonsense, that everything builds upon everything that came before it. Some people think that "creator rights" is exactly the opposite of fairness. Physics doesn't care who invented or created something. If you want compensation, sell the world something that someone actually wants to pay for.