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So far all independent verifications of the gaza health ministry’s numbers have found that they under-report the death toll. And i’m not sure how your sweden e

So far all independent verifications of the gaza health ministry’s numbers have found that they under-report the death toll. And i’m not sure how your sweden example says anything about the US supporting israel’s genocide? Was there something you expected to happen when sweden recognized palestine?

DSingularity 1y ago
[flagged]
- SadTrombone 1y ago
  Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I don't think he's saying to dismiss the Ministry's numbers, but more that the death toll is actually even higher than the Ministry's numbers, in opposition to Israeli claims that the Ministry is making up deaths.
  - kennywinker 1y ago
    Not misunderstanding, that was exactly what I was saying :)
  - DSingularity 1y ago
    Thanks for pointing that misread out.
dijit 1y ago
Really? Every time I search for independent verification I am told it’s too hard to come up with anything conclusive.
- ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
  What makes it too hard? Is there something stopping researchers and reporters from visiting and freely working in any areas of Palestine?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - jjcob 1y ago
    Yeah, we really need more verification that people are starving in Gaza. Why would people starve in Gaza? It's not like anybody has been bombing the city and blocking supply routes. Why would anybody starve there? We are going to need more proof than people saying that they don't have enough food.
  - esseph 1y ago
    Yeah they get fucking shot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_journalists_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_journalists_in_the_...
- kennywinker 1y ago
  FUD designed to allow the genocide to continue. In short: gazans are all issued ID numbers at birth. The ministry of health has published id numbers of the dead, which means you can do stats and tell if the data is fake. On top of that, so far (afaik since 2009 when hamas came to power) nobody has caught them in a lie. So they’ve a track record of telling the truth, and give us data that we can smell-test for fraud and it passes. So yes, nobody else is on the ground to produce independent numbers, so the numbers can’t be fully verified. But using that doubt as an excuse for inaction in the face of ethnic cleansing and genocide is fucking disgusting.
  - BigJ1211 1y ago
    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-he...
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    > The ministry of health has published id numbers of the dead, which means you can do stats and tell if the data is fake. On top of that, so far (afaik since 2009 when hamas came to power) nobody has caught them in a lie. So they’ve a track record of telling the truth, and give us data that we can smell-test for fraud and it passes. If you comment that they give us this data, surely you have a link to said data?
    - kennywinker 1y ago
      Surely you have the ability to google and find out for yourself. I don’t know if the data is available to the public, or just to journalists - but numerous reputable outlets have reported on this.
      - dismalaf 1y ago
        > The ministry of health has published id numbers of the dead, which means you can do stats and tell if the data is fake. > I don’t know if the data is available to the public, or just to journalists Do you know what "published" means? Hint, public and publish come from the same root word...
- gizmo686 1y ago
  Multiple things can be true at once. It is hard/impossible to come up with an accurate death toll. The Gaza Health Ministry systemically underreports the death toll by only counting bodies that they have directly observed. Some third parties have tried to extrapolate from the reported numbers to get to the actual numbers; but that is a highly speculative endeavor under the best circumstances.
  - dlubarov 1y ago
    > by only counting bodies that they have directly observed This was only true in an early phase of the conflict; they've long since been adding casualties reported by "reliable media sources" as well as a Google form.
    - Daishiman 1y ago
      It's amazing how there's all this skepticism when literal first-person repots come out every day showing that things are much worse on the ground.
      - dlubarov 1y ago
        I don’t think anyone here is denying the suffering that’s occurring, but it’s still important to make sure we have our facts right.
        Daishiman 1y ago
        The facts on the ground are extremely clear if you read what the aid agencies on the ground say instead of what gets passed off as news by American media.

DSingularity 1y ago

[flagged]

SadTrombone 1y ago
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I don't think he's saying to dismiss the Ministry's numbers, but more that the death toll is actually even higher than the Ministry's numbers, in opposition to Israeli claims that the Ministry is making up deaths.
- kennywinker 1y ago
  Not misunderstanding, that was exactly what I was saying :)
- DSingularity 1y ago
  Thanks for pointing that misread out.

dijit 1y ago

Really? Every time I search for independent verification I am told it’s too hard to come up with anything conclusive.

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
What makes it too hard? Is there something stopping researchers and reporters from visiting and freely working in any areas of Palestine?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jjcob 1y ago
  Yeah, we really need more verification that people are starving in Gaza. Why would people starve in Gaza? It's not like anybody has been bombing the city and blocking supply routes. Why would anybody starve there? We are going to need more proof than people saying that they don't have enough food.
- esseph 1y ago
  Yeah they get fucking shot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_journalists_in_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_journalists_in_the_...
kennywinker 1y ago
FUD designed to allow the genocide to continue. In short: gazans are all issued ID numbers at birth. The ministry of health has published id numbers of the dead, which means you can do stats and tell if the data is fake. On top of that, so far (afaik since 2009 when hamas came to power) nobody has caught them in a lie. So they’ve a track record of telling the truth, and give us data that we can smell-test for fraud and it passes. So yes, nobody else is on the ground to produce independent numbers, so the numbers can’t be fully verified. But using that doubt as an excuse for inaction in the face of ethnic cleansing and genocide is fucking disgusting.
- BigJ1211 1y ago
  https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-he...
- dismalaf 1y ago
  > The ministry of health has published id numbers of the dead, which means you can do stats and tell if the data is fake. On top of that, so far (afaik since 2009 when hamas came to power) nobody has caught them in a lie. So they’ve a track record of telling the truth, and give us data that we can smell-test for fraud and it passes. If you comment that they give us this data, surely you have a link to said data?
  - kennywinker 1y ago
    Surely you have the ability to google and find out for yourself. I don’t know if the data is available to the public, or just to journalists - but numerous reputable outlets have reported on this.
    - dismalaf 1y ago
      > The ministry of health has published id numbers of the dead, which means you can do stats and tell if the data is fake. > I don’t know if the data is available to the public, or just to journalists Do you know what "published" means? Hint, public and publish come from the same root word...
gizmo686 1y ago
Multiple things can be true at once. It is hard/impossible to come up with an accurate death toll. The Gaza Health Ministry systemically underreports the death toll by only counting bodies that they have directly observed. Some third parties have tried to extrapolate from the reported numbers to get to the actual numbers; but that is a highly speculative endeavor under the best circumstances.
- dlubarov 1y ago
  > by only counting bodies that they have directly observed This was only true in an early phase of the conflict; they've long since been adding casualties reported by "reliable media sources" as well as a Google form.
  - Daishiman 1y ago
    It's amazing how there's all this skepticism when literal first-person repots come out every day showing that things are much worse on the ground.
    - dlubarov 1y ago
      I don’t think anyone here is denying the suffering that’s occurring, but it’s still important to make sure we have our facts right.
      - Daishiman 1y ago
        The facts on the ground are extremely clear if you read what the aid agencies on the ground say instead of what gets passed off as news by American media.