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Sweden and the US are “kinda cozy” (I would say at least, from an inside perspective on how Sweden seems to lean in to US interests including copyright enforcem

by dijit 1y ago

Sweden and the US are “kinda cozy” (I would say at least, from an inside perspective on how Sweden seems to lean in to US interests including copyright enforcements and so forth). However Sweden was the first country to recognise Palestine. Is it possible that the pulling out of UNESCO is further in-line with Trumps “we want to focus on America” fluff, similar to the threats of pulling out of NATO and the actual pulling out of the Paris Accords. I’m aware that there has still been some US interference in the middle-east, I’m just not sure I’m drawing the same connections as you. Also, and I mean this in the best way I can: I don’t really trust anything coming out of Gaza’s health ministry. That doesn’t mean I side with Israel as they are also distorting facts very often.

DSingularity 1y ago
[flagged]
- dijit 1y ago
  It’s really not my fight, I’m Swedish - not American. You’ll always be disappointed if you continue with this mindset though, the world will not bend to you because of your moral outrage, the best you can hope for is to open peoples eyes with understanding - not by calling everyone inhumane, disgusting or laying expectations at their feet.
  - santoshalper 1y ago
    I think mass murder is one area where we can safely feel moral outrage. It might not work, but it probably has a better chance of influencing the outcome than shrugging and saying "well, that's just how it is".
    - dijit 1y ago
      To be completely fair with you which mass murder should I be outraged at? I was outraged with Uyghurs, I was outraged with Rwandans, I was outraged about the Tamils, Burma, the ISIL occupation, Boko Haram etc;etc;etc; I’m old now, my outrage did nothing to prevent or assuage these conflicts and this conflict seems too muddy for me to get involved with, I can’t pick a side, both sides are killing each other and one is more successful than the other. I don’t feel like beating people over the head with the conflict will actually stop anyone dying, even if we decided all of us together to bomb Israel off the map: that’s bad too. Nobody is coming to the table with anything even resembling a solution. So, kindly, I will reserve my moral outrage to situations whereby I can make a difference, where I don’t have to watch both sides chanting death threats in schools about each other. I will not morally side with either.
    - bongodongobob 1y ago
      Like the other reply, this shit really isn't as black and white and people make it out to be. There is a ton of history and fighting. They both suck. Anyone taking a hard stance with either side only has a surface level view of the situation.
    - throwawaygmbno 1y ago
      Kids being murdered is just as awful in Palestine, as it is in Africa, Asia, the Americas or anywhere else in the world. But, at what point does the rest of the world get to run out of "fucks" to give about their conflicts. I think the US should absolutely stop giving money to Israel, there seems to be no benefit at all and it supports their genocide. But I also see no reason to actually support Palestine. The current conflict can be traced back to the October attacks, but then those attacks can be traced back to some attacks Israel did and back and forth until you get to the Old Testament and probably before that. It's a religious conflict that won't go away unless you remove religion from it. I don't expect that to happen during my lifetime so I'd rather we just pull the tax dollars out of the region.
      - Hikikomori 1y ago
        This isn't some deep seated religious conflict. The few Jews and other people's lived largely in peace under the ottoman empire. Modern Israel is a joint US and European imperialist settler project where the founders of that movement outright said they intend to take over the area for their ethnostate. Most of the problems in the middle east can be traced back to European and American meddling.
    - tempnew 1y ago
      I felt moral outrage after October 7th, but my moral outrage only served to give Israel a bit more justification for actions which are increasingly and ultimately turning out in a way that provokes similar outrage. Outrage begets outrage, blood will have blood.
kennywinker 1y ago
So far all independent verifications of the gaza health ministry’s numbers have found that they under-report the death toll. And i’m not sure how your sweden example says anything about the US supporting israel’s genocide? Was there something you expected to happen when sweden recognized palestine?
- DSingularity 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - SadTrombone 1y ago
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I don't think he's saying to dismiss the Ministry's numbers, but more that the death toll is actually even higher than the Ministry's numbers, in opposition to Israeli claims that the Ministry is making up deaths.
    - kennywinker 1y ago
      Not misunderstanding, that was exactly what I was saying :)
    - DSingularity 1y ago
      Thanks for pointing that misread out.
- dijit 1y ago
  Really? Every time I search for independent verification I am told it’s too hard to come up with anything conclusive.
  - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
    What makes it too hard? Is there something stopping researchers and reporters from visiting and freely working in any areas of Palestine?
pphysch 1y ago
> Is it possible that the pulling out of UNESCO is further in-line with Trumps “we want to focus on America” fluff That would be great (?), except the stated reason for pulling out was "anti-Israel bias". It's about kowtowing to a foreign terror regime, not standing up for America.
ribosometronome 1y ago
>Is it possible that the pulling out of UNESCO is further in-line with Trumps “we want to focus on America” fluff, similar to the threats of pulling out of NATO and the actual pulling out of the Paris Accords. Why would you give them the benefit of the doubt when they directly state that they're withdrawing over the decision to admit Palestine?
themgt 1y ago
If you don't believe Gaza's health ministry, how about Agence France-Presse? The journalists' association of the French wire service Agence France-Presse (AFP) warned on Monday that staff working with the agency in Gaza are at risk of starvation and that "without intervention, the last reporters in Gaza will die." In the statement, the SDJ said that AFP's journalists in Gaza have warned that they no longer have strength to report, with one photographer, Bashar Taleb, saying in a post on Facebook: "My body is thin and I can no longer work." "Since AFP was founded in August 1944, we have lost journalists in conflicts, we have had wounded and prisoners in our ranks, but none of us can recall seeing a colleague die of hunger," the SDJ said in a post on X. https://www.euronews.com/2025/07/22/afp-journalists-at-risk-of-starving-to-death-in-gaza-without-intervention-news-agency-says https://www.euronews.com/2025/07/22/afp-journalists-at-risk-...
- dijit 1y ago
  I wasn’t aware of that media outlet, just FYI (and to reinforce your point) it seems that while there is a significant left bias, generally AFP’s journalism is considered reliable and credible. https://www.allsides.com/news-source/afp-fact-check-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/afp-fact-check-media-bi... Are reporters taking food from Gaza’s or, how is that distributed?
  - formerly_proven 1y ago
    AFP is like the third biggest news agency on this planet and you're linking to bothsides.bad?!
    - dijit 1y ago
      AFP is previously unknown to me, and yes I did because its actually reinforcing the parents point about being a reliable source. Maybe read before commenting, or perhaps allow people to be ignorant and admit that openly; jumping down my throat because I don’t already know your favourite news outlet solves what exactly? (also don’t think I don’t see the irony of your bio being: “I usually don't know what I'm talking about.”)
Hikikomori 1y ago
Some US interference? Like funding the genocide? Pretty much all atrocities in the middle east can be traced back Europeans (mainly UK) carving up the area after ww1 and theirs and American imperialism since ww2. Israel is a project of this.
- mola 1y ago
  So you want Israel to cease to exist? Germany did the Holocaust, nobody said Germany can't exist. Russia attacks Ukraine in an emperialistic power move, no one suggest Russia shouldn't exist. But Israel is a "project" that needs to end. More like a scape goat. I'm israeli. This war is bad, my government is evil. But I deserve to have a nation to call home, so do the Palestinians. If you disagree with me, think about it a bit and what it says about you.
  - esseph 1y ago
    Hey, American here. > This war is bad, my government is evil. We have a lot in common > But I deserve to have a nation to call home, so do the Palestinians. Absolutely!!!
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    Who has the right to exist in that area? The people that already lived there and their offspring, who are now refugees in Gaza. People do have the right to form their own states, but on land they already own legally and ethically, not when you colonize land already occupied by others. I did not call for the end of Israel as a project, I do disagree with it's creation, considering how it turned out, especially since it was more or less the intention of Zionism as stated by it's founders. I don't know how to solve it. But I do know that Israels actions since it was founded has worked against any kind of solution that is not a takeover of the area and the creation of their ethnostate.
    - mola 1y ago
      You are severely lacking in history. You domknownthat Palestinians are mostly Arabs and not native to the region. The Israeli founders accepted the UN partition resolution. all Arab countries attacked Israel to destroy and create their pan Arabian fantasy. In the 90s Israel initiated the peace process and gave self rule to the Palestinians with an end goal to create a Palestinian state. Hamas decided to send suicide bombers to bomb Israeli busses killing thousands. This caused a massive shift right in israeli politics. And gave power to those saying we can't afford to give land. I don't agree with them. Your revisionism is abhorrent.

by dijit 1y ago

DSingularity 1y ago

[flagged]

dijit 1y ago
It’s really not my fight, I’m Swedish - not American. You’ll always be disappointed if you continue with this mindset though, the world will not bend to you because of your moral outrage, the best you can hope for is to open peoples eyes with understanding - not by calling everyone inhumane, disgusting or laying expectations at their feet.
- santoshalper 1y ago
  I think mass murder is one area where we can safely feel moral outrage. It might not work, but it probably has a better chance of influencing the outcome than shrugging and saying "well, that's just how it is".
  - dijit 1y ago
    To be completely fair with you which mass murder should I be outraged at? I was outraged with Uyghurs, I was outraged with Rwandans, I was outraged about the Tamils, Burma, the ISIL occupation, Boko Haram etc;etc;etc; I’m old now, my outrage did nothing to prevent or assuage these conflicts and this conflict seems too muddy for me to get involved with, I can’t pick a side, both sides are killing each other and one is more successful than the other. I don’t feel like beating people over the head with the conflict will actually stop anyone dying, even if we decided all of us together to bomb Israel off the map: that’s bad too. Nobody is coming to the table with anything even resembling a solution. So, kindly, I will reserve my moral outrage to situations whereby I can make a difference, where I don’t have to watch both sides chanting death threats in schools about each other. I will not morally side with either.
  - bongodongobob 1y ago
    Like the other reply, this shit really isn't as black and white and people make it out to be. There is a ton of history and fighting. They both suck. Anyone taking a hard stance with either side only has a surface level view of the situation.
  - throwawaygmbno 1y ago
    Kids being murdered is just as awful in Palestine, as it is in Africa, Asia, the Americas or anywhere else in the world. But, at what point does the rest of the world get to run out of "fucks" to give about their conflicts. I think the US should absolutely stop giving money to Israel, there seems to be no benefit at all and it supports their genocide. But I also see no reason to actually support Palestine. The current conflict can be traced back to the October attacks, but then those attacks can be traced back to some attacks Israel did and back and forth until you get to the Old Testament and probably before that. It's a religious conflict that won't go away unless you remove religion from it. I don't expect that to happen during my lifetime so I'd rather we just pull the tax dollars out of the region.
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      This isn't some deep seated religious conflict. The few Jews and other people's lived largely in peace under the ottoman empire. Modern Israel is a joint US and European imperialist settler project where the founders of that movement outright said they intend to take over the area for their ethnostate. Most of the problems in the middle east can be traced back to European and American meddling.
  - tempnew 1y ago
    I felt moral outrage after October 7th, but my moral outrage only served to give Israel a bit more justification for actions which are increasingly and ultimately turning out in a way that provokes similar outrage. Outrage begets outrage, blood will have blood.

kennywinker 1y ago

So far all independent verifications of the gaza health ministry’s numbers have found that they under-report the death toll. And i’m not sure how your sweden example says anything about the US supporting israel’s genocide? Was there something you expected to happen when sweden recognized palestine?

DSingularity 1y ago
[flagged]
- SadTrombone 1y ago
  Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I don't think he's saying to dismiss the Ministry's numbers, but more that the death toll is actually even higher than the Ministry's numbers, in opposition to Israeli claims that the Ministry is making up deaths.
  - kennywinker 1y ago
    Not misunderstanding, that was exactly what I was saying :)
  - DSingularity 1y ago
    Thanks for pointing that misread out.
dijit 1y ago
Really? Every time I search for independent verification I am told it’s too hard to come up with anything conclusive.
- ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
  What makes it too hard? Is there something stopping researchers and reporters from visiting and freely working in any areas of Palestine?

pphysch 1y ago

> Is it possible that the pulling out of UNESCO is further in-line with Trumps “we want to focus on America” fluff That would be great (?), except the stated reason for pulling out was "anti-Israel bias". It's about kowtowing to a foreign terror regime, not standing up for America.

ribosometronome 1y ago

>Is it possible that the pulling out of UNESCO is further in-line with Trumps “we want to focus on America” fluff, similar to the threats of pulling out of NATO and the actual pulling out of the Paris Accords. Why would you give them the benefit of the doubt when they directly state that they're withdrawing over the decision to admit Palestine?

themgt 1y ago

If you don't believe Gaza's health ministry, how about Agence France-Presse? The journalists' association of the French wire service Agence France-Presse (AFP) warned on Monday that staff working with the agency in Gaza are at risk of starvation and that "without intervention, the last reporters in Gaza will die." In the statement, the SDJ said that AFP's journalists in Gaza have warned that they no longer have strength to report, with one photographer, Bashar Taleb, saying in a post on Facebook: "My body is thin and I can no longer work." "Since AFP was founded in August 1944, we have lost journalists in conflicts, we have had wounded and prisoners in our ranks, but none of us can recall seeing a colleague die of hunger," the SDJ said in a post on X. https://www.euronews.com/2025/07/22/afp-journalists-at-risk-of-starving-to-death-in-gaza-without-intervention-news-agency-says https://www.euronews.com/2025/07/22/afp-journalists-at-risk-...

dijit 1y ago
I wasn’t aware of that media outlet, just FYI (and to reinforce your point) it seems that while there is a significant left bias, generally AFP’s journalism is considered reliable and credible. https://www.allsides.com/news-source/afp-fact-check-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/afp-fact-check-media-bi... Are reporters taking food from Gaza’s or, how is that distributed?
- formerly_proven 1y ago
  AFP is like the third biggest news agency on this planet and you're linking to bothsides.bad?!
  - dijit 1y ago
    AFP is previously unknown to me, and yes I did because its actually reinforcing the parents point about being a reliable source. Maybe read before commenting, or perhaps allow people to be ignorant and admit that openly; jumping down my throat because I don’t already know your favourite news outlet solves what exactly? (also don’t think I don’t see the irony of your bio being: “I usually don't know what I'm talking about.”)

Hikikomori 1y ago

Some US interference? Like funding the genocide? Pretty much all atrocities in the middle east can be traced back Europeans (mainly UK) carving up the area after ww1 and theirs and American imperialism since ww2. Israel is a project of this.

mola 1y ago
So you want Israel to cease to exist? Germany did the Holocaust, nobody said Germany can't exist. Russia attacks Ukraine in an emperialistic power move, no one suggest Russia shouldn't exist. But Israel is a "project" that needs to end. More like a scape goat. I'm israeli. This war is bad, my government is evil. But I deserve to have a nation to call home, so do the Palestinians. If you disagree with me, think about it a bit and what it says about you.
- esseph 1y ago
  Hey, American here. > This war is bad, my government is evil. We have a lot in common > But I deserve to have a nation to call home, so do the Palestinians. Absolutely!!!
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  Who has the right to exist in that area? The people that already lived there and their offspring, who are now refugees in Gaza. People do have the right to form their own states, but on land they already own legally and ethically, not when you colonize land already occupied by others. I did not call for the end of Israel as a project, I do disagree with it's creation, considering how it turned out, especially since it was more or less the intention of Zionism as stated by it's founders. I don't know how to solve it. But I do know that Israels actions since it was founded has worked against any kind of solution that is not a takeover of the area and the creation of their ethnostate.
  - mola 1y ago
    You are severely lacking in history. You domknownthat Palestinians are mostly Arabs and not native to the region. The Israeli founders accepted the UN partition resolution. all Arab countries attacked Israel to destroy and create their pan Arabian fantasy. In the 90s Israel initiated the peace process and gave self rule to the Palestinians with an end goal to create a Palestinian state. Hamas decided to send suicide bombers to bomb Israeli busses killing thousands. This caused a massive shift right in israeli politics. And gave power to those saying we can't afford to give land. I don't agree with them. Your revisionism is abhorrent.