4 ms·

"Some students asked whether there was a fundamental contradiction between telling students to use online resources, but not to discuss the test with each other

"Some students asked whether there was a fundamental contradiction between telling students to use online resources, but not to discuss the test with each other." No.

oob205 14y ago
Um..yes. Study groups or websites are online resources. So is facebook. If a student posts the questions online and starts discussions with anonymous posters, or even reads relevant discussions posted online before the test, how is that different from discussing with one another. There are plenty of ways to have a test that explicitly prevents collaboration. This professor clearly did not try.
- tlrobinson 14y ago
  If the students couldn't figure out how to use online resources without collaborating with each other they don't belong at Harvard.
- trhtrsh 14y ago
  This is a case of the changing times leading to miscommunication. The implied intent of the rule is that READ-ONLY NON-INTERACTIVE Internet use was permitted. To today's students, the Internet is a READ-WRITE INTERACTIVE tool, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
  - pbhjpbhj 14y ago
    >The implied intent of the rule // Can you quote the rule because in the article it appears that the intent of the rule was that above all you couldn't interact with other students [on the course] to complete the work but as long as you kept to that rule then general internet resources were fine to use?
- mbreese 14y ago
  There is a fundamental difference between using online resources to find an answer to a question and collaborating with others to find the same answer. Part of the grade is based on how well you can find the answers, not how well your collective group can. If the test is open book, open Internet, that doesn't mean you can ask your friends on Facebook for help, just because Facebook is on the Internet. I think that the class was likely poorly designed, but that doesn't mean that the students are all in the clear.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    It's not even really about how well you can find the answers, it's more about what you'll learn while you're searching for and thinking about the answers. That process is completely cut short if you just copy someone else's answer.
  - oob205 14y ago
    I dont think students are all in the clear in the least bit. I just happen to believe that permitting online resources implies permitting collaboration, as the internet is a tool for collaboration as much as it is a tool for pure research. As far as I'm concerned, it a test is open internet, then it's de facto collaboration permitted.
    - tlrobinson 14y ago
      In general I agree, but the professor explicitly told them not to discuss the test with each other.
- MisterMerkin 14y ago
  Do you really believe that the professor said they are not allowed to consult each other in person but may consult each other online?
jimmar 14y ago
Maybe in the past there was more of a distinction between online resources and peers, but today I think the line is quite blurred. Would a thoughtful online discussion of the students enrolled in the class be considered an online resource, or would it be classified as discussing the test with others? Personally, I think some of the most valuable learning happens when discussing course content with my peers. Sometimes, I take the role of the learner, other times I'm forced to test my own understanding when explaining things to others. It's a win-win. Because I engage with others, it's likely that many of the same ideas I put down on paper would be similar to other people's work. But I don't consider that cheating. However, I would never take an answer that somebody else had written, change the words around, and submit it. Not being directly involved in this case at Harvard, it's hard to tell exactly what the students did.

"Some students asked whether there was a fundamental contradiction between telling students to use online resources, but not to discuss the test with each other." No.

oob205 14y ago

Um..yes. Study groups or websites are online resources. So is facebook. If a student posts the questions online and starts discussions with anonymous posters, or even reads relevant discussions posted online before the test, how is that different from discussing with one another. There are plenty of ways to have a test that explicitly prevents collaboration. This professor clearly did not try.

tlrobinson 14y ago
If the students couldn't figure out how to use online resources without collaborating with each other they don't belong at Harvard.
trhtrsh 14y ago
This is a case of the changing times leading to miscommunication. The implied intent of the rule is that READ-ONLY NON-INTERACTIVE Internet use was permitted. To today's students, the Internet is a READ-WRITE INTERACTIVE tool, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
- pbhjpbhj 14y ago
  >The implied intent of the rule // Can you quote the rule because in the article it appears that the intent of the rule was that above all you couldn't interact with other students [on the course] to complete the work but as long as you kept to that rule then general internet resources were fine to use?
mbreese 14y ago
There is a fundamental difference between using online resources to find an answer to a question and collaborating with others to find the same answer. Part of the grade is based on how well you can find the answers, not how well your collective group can. If the test is open book, open Internet, that doesn't mean you can ask your friends on Facebook for help, just because Facebook is on the Internet. I think that the class was likely poorly designed, but that doesn't mean that the students are all in the clear.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  It's not even really about how well you can find the answers, it's more about what you'll learn while you're searching for and thinking about the answers. That process is completely cut short if you just copy someone else's answer.
- oob205 14y ago
  I dont think students are all in the clear in the least bit. I just happen to believe that permitting online resources implies permitting collaboration, as the internet is a tool for collaboration as much as it is a tool for pure research. As far as I'm concerned, it a test is open internet, then it's de facto collaboration permitted.
  - tlrobinson 14y ago
    In general I agree, but the professor explicitly told them not to discuss the test with each other.
MisterMerkin 14y ago
Do you really believe that the professor said they are not allowed to consult each other in person but may consult each other online?

jimmar 14y ago

Maybe in the past there was more of a distinction between online resources and peers, but today I think the line is quite blurred. Would a thoughtful online discussion of the students enrolled in the class be considered an online resource, or would it be classified as discussing the test with others? Personally, I think some of the most valuable learning happens when discussing course content with my peers. Sometimes, I take the role of the learner, other times I'm forced to test my own understanding when explaining things to others. It's a win-win. Because I engage with others, it's likely that many of the same ideas I put down on paper would be similar to other people's work. But I don't consider that cheating. However, I would never take an answer that somebody else had written, change the words around, and submit it. Not being directly involved in this case at Harvard, it's hard to tell exactly what the students did.