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(Archive: https://archive.is/6k1FH https://archive.is/6k1FH) Author does not fully address that the CIA effectively funds and directs the rest of the IC. They

(Archive: https://archive.is/6k1FH https://archive.is/6k1FH) Author does not fully address that the CIA effectively funds and directs the rest of the IC. They gate all infrastructure - from networks to satellites to drones. When Congress tried to limit their operations with heavy oversight, they spun out a brand new intelligence agency, classified its very existence, and spun out operations on that side for years before CBO caught on.

Havoc 1y ago
Could you elaborate / point me in the right direction on this? Would love to read up on this spun out operation
- cuuupid 1y ago
  Many would argue there are 2-3 agencies that fit this description but the most famous and clear cut is the NRO: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reconnaissance_Office https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reconnaissance_Offi...
  - lowwave 1y ago
    Spun off to another subsidiary seems like the game here! Not just CIA. Whenever military industrial complex or bankers want a make over, defers litigation risks or just conceal ownership, they just create a subsidiary, spun it off with another name and/or hide the everything behind client attorney privileges. It also gives the public a memory wipe. Very clever technique indeed.
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    I thought NRO was funded separate from CIA not spawned off from
    - darig 1y ago
      [dead]
    - gatlin 1y ago
      I encourage you to read more about them.
  - eigencoder 1y ago
    The NRO was not spun out from the CIA. It's a separate organization. The wikipedia article you link to suggests that it was not created as part of the CIA.
    - egberts1 1y ago
      If you remove government budget from an NGO and it cease to exist, it was never really a non-government organization, it is technically a government organization.
      - sam_bristow 1y ago
        I believe you've got confused between the NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) and NGO (Non-governmental Organisation). The NRO is very much part of the US government.
        egberts1 1y ago
        Wrong article, was reading about NGO. My bad.
- bawana 1y ago
  They ccreated a few private equity firms so they could get wall street suckers to fund their military and covert adventures.
  - adolph 1y ago
    From the mind of Tom Clancy: The Campus operates under the cover of Hendley Associates, a financial trading institution. Hendley Associates is a trader in stocks, bonds, and international currencies, though, it does little in the way of public business and is not known to have any clients. . . . By intercepting communications between the CIA and NSA, the Campus is able to take advantage of SIGINT they gather and cross-deck to the CIA. This gives The Campus currency-trading troops the best sort of insider information, which enables the organization to make a ton of long-term money without anybody really noticing. . . . https://jackryan.fandom.com/wiki/The_Campus https://jackryan.fandom.com/wiki/The_Campus
- RaftPeople 1y ago
  > Would love to read up on this spun out operation It's called Treadstone, there are a few movies about it.
JamesSwift 1y ago
Uhh, no? In what way does the CIA fund and direct the FBI and/or NSA?
- threemux 1y ago
  They don't. This guy is talking out of his ass. They don't have the same funding streams (NSA falls under DoD for example) or missions. Hell, several IC members are military organizations and definitely do not fall under CIA in any way.
  - red-iron-pine 1y ago
    yeah the NSA is straight up US military. It's headed by a general or occasionally admiral. located on a US Army base (Fort Meade). instead of each branch of the US military having their own codebreaking and SIGINT group the DoD decided to merge them and members of all services work at Ft Meade.
- cuuupid 1y ago
  Until 2004 directly via DCI, since then via embedding officers in leadership across the rest of the IC. Today, NSA SIGINT still flows directly to the CIA. They are also the only agency without an independent mission, and must rely on the CIA or CYBERCOM to actually do anything with SIGINT (they are only allowed to gather) Also an open secret that the FBI and CIA often collude and any operation that they can’t get a warrant for just gets performed by the CIA. The FBI’s threat matrix is coordinated by the CIA and despite the Church probes their collusion has only incentivized and even been codified (eg NCTC)
  - jonnybgood 1y ago
    NSA SIGINT flows to any agency who has a need to know. And what do you mean by can only do anything with SIGINT? SIGINT is a broad term that includes COMINT and ELINT, which many other agencies do quite a lot with.
    - snypher 1y ago
Animats 1y ago
The CIA used to be in charge of the US intelligence community, at least on paper. But since 2004, there's the Director of National Intelligence, who heads an organization with about 1700 people. They supervise CIA, NSA, NRO, and the armed services intelligence agencies, and control the flow of information to the President. They create the President's Daily Brief, which the CIA used to generate. (Not to be confused with someone's podcast of the same name.) Tulsi Gabbard is the current DNI.
- JamesSwift 1y ago
  It should be heavily emphasized that pre and post 9/11 IC are two completely different entities. One of the biggest changes post 9/11 was a fundamental analysis of how our agencies are split up and how they share information.
- cuuupid 1y ago
  On paper sure, but ODNI & CIA are interchangeable highside. The NRO is spun off the CIA, NSA’s network sits in a network gated by the CIA, and everything under DIA is overseen by the NSC which is “advised” by the CIA. They also control all HUMINT which is critical to the mission of nearly every agency. Would also mention the last two DNI were CIA directors. The two before that were NSA directors during a time where the NSA was largely controlled by the CIA and its leadership largely shared positions on the CIA’s senior leadership team.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  The existance of the President's brief makes me smirk these days. It's probably a 10 second cartoon now, if it's used at all. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/gabbard-considering-ways-revamp-trumps-intelligence-briefing-rcna209805 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/gabbard-c...
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    I always picture handpuppets. "Oh no! A missile is hitting Kiev!" (puppeteer makes sound of explosion like BKSHSH!)
freejazz 1y ago
When you say spun out, you mean that congress created another agency, right?
- colechristensen 1y ago
  Congress gave the president the power to create national security agencies with the National Security Act of 1947. Eisenhower created the NRO in 1960 (well if was named differently and renamed to NRO in 61) There have been several changes to the relationship of the various national security agencies and Congress over the years.
  - freejazz 1y ago
    Thank you for explaining.
    - lazide 1y ago
      The entire existence of the NSA was classified for a long time too (including that they had a budget). These agencies seem to go through a cycle where a prior agency gets noticed/public and starts to get blowback, so can’t hide anymore. This makes it more difficult for them to do some or part of their mission, so a new secret agency gets spun up to do the new hotness part - and their existence is classified, wash rinse repeat.
      - colechristensen 1y ago
        And this is the American government functioning as intended! The president was given powers to create these agencies by Congress, and Congress regularly steps in to regulate and put into law various details of how they operate. Today's Congress entirely failing to regulate the executive branch and seemingly... uninterested? in doing so is troubling for the stability of the republic.
        dylan604 1y ago
        > Today's Congress entirely failing to regulate the executive branch and seemingly...uninterested? You say uninterested, yet it seems more like complicit. Both chambers of Congress are led by the same party as POTUS. They are quite happy with how things are going, and actively work to enable POTUS and his agenda. There are some things where previous Congress has put limits on POTUS that this POTUS is ignoring. If this Congress was really effective, they'd repeal those regulations so POTUS' actions would not run afoul of legislation. Instead, they are just ignoring the flagrant violations, and letting SCOTUS (also led by the same party) get involved with their decisions that POTUS has flagrantly pushed back against as well.
dzonga 1y ago
yep!! people tend to overlook how powerful the CIA is. it's probably the only gvt agency which can fully fund itself, answers to no one. can probably take down the president, or the whole congress and judges. what has saved americans is the CIA has been focused on foreign issues. once that might is turned internally there's hell to pay.
- NoGravitas 1y ago
  > can probably take down the president It is extremely likely but not proven that they have done so at least one time in the past.
- aredox 1y ago
  Good thing the current CIA director helped the current president avoid accountability for his first putch attempt.
- pjc50 1y ago
  Foreign abuses eventually rebound on the imperial core. The establishment of more and more internment camps and the snatch squads to fill them is extremely alarming, even if it doesn't have a "CIA" label on it but "ICE" instead. America built a machine for overthrowing democratic governments in South America because they didn't align with corporate interests, and somehow pretends that this can be contained to only operate south of the Rio Grande? Ironically I think the extremely indiscriminate nature of Trumpism might be its downfall when the security agencies finally turn on him. I wonder to what extent USAID really was a CIA front, and if they're offended that it was burned down without consulting them.
  - dontlaugh 1y ago
    Just because Trump represents a slightly different faction of capital doesn’t mean he seriously threatens the one the CIA is the paramilitary arm of, though.
  - gadders 1y ago
    >>America built a machine for overthrowing democratic governments in South America because they didn't align with corporate interests, and somehow pretends that this can be contained to only operate south of the Rio Grande? It's been used in Ukraine and other Eastern Europe countries as well.
jandrewrogers 1y ago
It doesn't work that way, there is a pretty clear separation between civilian and military intelligence. For example, CIA and FBI are civilian, NSA and DIA are military. This separation is both legal and practical. Some agencies are more influential than others but that waxes and wanes over time. There is always some agency in ascendency and another in decline. I've seen the centers of influence shift between agencies more than once. Your conspiracy theory is a bit overwrought.
tedmcory77 1y ago
"they spun out a brand new intelligence agency, classified its very existence, and spun out operations on that side for years before CBO caught on." - Do you have any details on this? Super interested in this.

Havoc 1y ago

Could you elaborate / point me in the right direction on this? Would love to read up on this spun out operation

cuuupid 1y ago
Many would argue there are 2-3 agencies that fit this description but the most famous and clear cut is the NRO: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reconnaissance_Office https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reconnaissance_Offi...
- lowwave 1y ago
  Spun off to another subsidiary seems like the game here! Not just CIA. Whenever military industrial complex or bankers want a make over, defers litigation risks or just conceal ownership, they just create a subsidiary, spun it off with another name and/or hide the everything behind client attorney privileges. It also gives the public a memory wipe. Very clever technique indeed.
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  I thought NRO was funded separate from CIA not spawned off from
  - darig 1y ago
    [dead]
  - gatlin 1y ago
    I encourage you to read more about them.
- eigencoder 1y ago
  The NRO was not spun out from the CIA. It's a separate organization. The wikipedia article you link to suggests that it was not created as part of the CIA.
  - egberts1 1y ago
    If you remove government budget from an NGO and it cease to exist, it was never really a non-government organization, it is technically a government organization.
    - sam_bristow 1y ago
      I believe you've got confused between the NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) and NGO (Non-governmental Organisation). The NRO is very much part of the US government.
      - egberts1 1y ago
        Wrong article, was reading about NGO. My bad.
bawana 1y ago
They ccreated a few private equity firms so they could get wall street suckers to fund their military and covert adventures.
- adolph 1y ago
  From the mind of Tom Clancy: The Campus operates under the cover of Hendley Associates, a financial trading institution. Hendley Associates is a trader in stocks, bonds, and international currencies, though, it does little in the way of public business and is not known to have any clients. . . . By intercepting communications between the CIA and NSA, the Campus is able to take advantage of SIGINT they gather and cross-deck to the CIA. This gives The Campus currency-trading troops the best sort of insider information, which enables the organization to make a ton of long-term money without anybody really noticing. . . . https://jackryan.fandom.com/wiki/The_Campus https://jackryan.fandom.com/wiki/The_Campus
RaftPeople 1y ago
> Would love to read up on this spun out operation It's called Treadstone, there are a few movies about it.

JamesSwift 1y ago

Uhh, no? In what way does the CIA fund and direct the FBI and/or NSA?

threemux 1y ago
They don't. This guy is talking out of his ass. They don't have the same funding streams (NSA falls under DoD for example) or missions. Hell, several IC members are military organizations and definitely do not fall under CIA in any way.
- red-iron-pine 1y ago
  yeah the NSA is straight up US military. It's headed by a general or occasionally admiral. located on a US Army base (Fort Meade). instead of each branch of the US military having their own codebreaking and SIGINT group the DoD decided to merge them and members of all services work at Ft Meade.
cuuupid 1y ago
Until 2004 directly via DCI, since then via embedding officers in leadership across the rest of the IC. Today, NSA SIGINT still flows directly to the CIA. They are also the only agency without an independent mission, and must rely on the CIA or CYBERCOM to actually do anything with SIGINT (they are only allowed to gather) Also an open secret that the FBI and CIA often collude and any operation that they can’t get a warrant for just gets performed by the CIA. The FBI’s threat matrix is coordinated by the CIA and despite the Church probes their collusion has only incentivized and even been codified (eg NCTC)
- jonnybgood 1y ago
  NSA SIGINT flows to any agency who has a need to know. And what do you mean by can only do anything with SIGINT? SIGINT is a broad term that includes COMINT and ELINT, which many other agencies do quite a lot with.
  - snypher 1y ago

Animats 1y ago

The CIA used to be in charge of the US intelligence community, at least on paper. But since 2004, there's the Director of National Intelligence, who heads an organization with about 1700 people. They supervise CIA, NSA, NRO, and the armed services intelligence agencies, and control the flow of information to the President. They create the President's Daily Brief, which the CIA used to generate. (Not to be confused with someone's podcast of the same name.) Tulsi Gabbard is the current DNI.

JamesSwift 1y ago
It should be heavily emphasized that pre and post 9/11 IC are two completely different entities. One of the biggest changes post 9/11 was a fundamental analysis of how our agencies are split up and how they share information.
cuuupid 1y ago
On paper sure, but ODNI & CIA are interchangeable highside. The NRO is spun off the CIA, NSA’s network sits in a network gated by the CIA, and everything under DIA is overseen by the NSC which is “advised” by the CIA. They also control all HUMINT which is critical to the mission of nearly every agency. Would also mention the last two DNI were CIA directors. The two before that were NSA directors during a time where the NSA was largely controlled by the CIA and its leadership largely shared positions on the CIA’s senior leadership team.
actionfromafar 1y ago
The existance of the President's brief makes me smirk these days. It's probably a 10 second cartoon now, if it's used at all. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/gabbard-considering-ways-revamp-trumps-intelligence-briefing-rcna209805 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/gabbard-c...
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  I always picture handpuppets. "Oh no! A missile is hitting Kiev!" (puppeteer makes sound of explosion like BKSHSH!)

freejazz 1y ago

When you say spun out, you mean that congress created another agency, right?

colechristensen 1y ago
Congress gave the president the power to create national security agencies with the National Security Act of 1947. Eisenhower created the NRO in 1960 (well if was named differently and renamed to NRO in 61) There have been several changes to the relationship of the various national security agencies and Congress over the years.
- freejazz 1y ago
  Thank you for explaining.
  - lazide 1y ago
    The entire existence of the NSA was classified for a long time too (including that they had a budget). These agencies seem to go through a cycle where a prior agency gets noticed/public and starts to get blowback, so can’t hide anymore. This makes it more difficult for them to do some or part of their mission, so a new secret agency gets spun up to do the new hotness part - and their existence is classified, wash rinse repeat.
    - colechristensen 1y ago
      And this is the American government functioning as intended! The president was given powers to create these agencies by Congress, and Congress regularly steps in to regulate and put into law various details of how they operate. Today's Congress entirely failing to regulate the executive branch and seemingly... uninterested? in doing so is troubling for the stability of the republic.
      - dylan604 1y ago
        > Today's Congress entirely failing to regulate the executive branch and seemingly...uninterested? You say uninterested, yet it seems more like complicit. Both chambers of Congress are led by the same party as POTUS. They are quite happy with how things are going, and actively work to enable POTUS and his agenda. There are some things where previous Congress has put limits on POTUS that this POTUS is ignoring. If this Congress was really effective, they'd repeal those regulations so POTUS' actions would not run afoul of legislation. Instead, they are just ignoring the flagrant violations, and letting SCOTUS (also led by the same party) get involved with their decisions that POTUS has flagrantly pushed back against as well.

dzonga 1y ago

yep!! people tend to overlook how powerful the CIA is. it's probably the only gvt agency which can fully fund itself, answers to no one. can probably take down the president, or the whole congress and judges. what has saved americans is the CIA has been focused on foreign issues. once that might is turned internally there's hell to pay.

NoGravitas 1y ago
> can probably take down the president It is extremely likely but not proven that they have done so at least one time in the past.
aredox 1y ago
Good thing the current CIA director helped the current president avoid accountability for his first putch attempt.
pjc50 1y ago
Foreign abuses eventually rebound on the imperial core. The establishment of more and more internment camps and the snatch squads to fill them is extremely alarming, even if it doesn't have a "CIA" label on it but "ICE" instead. America built a machine for overthrowing democratic governments in South America because they didn't align with corporate interests, and somehow pretends that this can be contained to only operate south of the Rio Grande? Ironically I think the extremely indiscriminate nature of Trumpism might be its downfall when the security agencies finally turn on him. I wonder to what extent USAID really was a CIA front, and if they're offended that it was burned down without consulting them.
- dontlaugh 1y ago
  Just because Trump represents a slightly different faction of capital doesn’t mean he seriously threatens the one the CIA is the paramilitary arm of, though.
- gadders 1y ago
  >>America built a machine for overthrowing democratic governments in South America because they didn't align with corporate interests, and somehow pretends that this can be contained to only operate south of the Rio Grande? It's been used in Ukraine and other Eastern Europe countries as well.

jandrewrogers 1y ago

It doesn't work that way, there is a pretty clear separation between civilian and military intelligence. For example, CIA and FBI are civilian, NSA and DIA are military. This separation is both legal and practical. Some agencies are more influential than others but that waxes and wanes over time. There is always some agency in ascendency and another in decline. I've seen the centers of influence shift between agencies more than once. Your conspiracy theory is a bit overwrought.

tedmcory77 1y ago

"they spun out a brand new intelligence agency, classified its very existence, and spun out operations on that side for years before CBO caught on." - Do you have any details on this? Super interested in this.