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They are forcefully pushing for whatever the position of US companies is in conflicts between US companies and EU regulators. The position of the US executive

by pyrale 1y ago

They are forcefully pushing for whatever the position of US companies is in conflicts between US companies and EU regulators. The position of the US executive on encryption is well summarized by the Lavabit case.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
patrickmcnamara 1y ago
The UK is not in the EU.
- blitzar 1y ago
  The UK left the EU so we could persue a far stuipider set of regulations.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    UK: "Parkour!"
- pyrale 1y ago
  Close enough :)
GeekyBear 1y ago
The U.S. also attempted to force Apple to add a back door just a decade ago. > Tim Cook, the C.E.O. of Apple, which has been ordered to help the F.B.I. get into the cell phone of the San Bernardino shooters, wrote in an angry open letter this week that "the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create." The second part of that formulation has rightly received a great deal of attention: Should a back door be built into devices that are used for encrypted communications? https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/a-dangerous-all-writ-precedent-in-the-apple-case https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/a-dangerous-all-...
- reactordev 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - hobs 1y ago
    I mean Cellebrite has been a public name for a long time now, and LEO pays for that and similar devices which basically launder zero days and physical exploits to get your stuff.
    - reactordev 1y ago
      Correct, they are one known actor...
  - jrockway 1y ago
    I don't think anyone's surprised by that. Our emails have literally been used to target ads at us since like 2006. Cell phone carriers are happy to mine voicemail, call logs, SMS, etc. in the hopes of finding a revenue stream that doesn't involve them having to do irritating work like running fiber to cell phone towers. This leaves contact mining as the odd one out, but given how many apps want to see your contacts, you know that those are being sold by at least one of those apps. None of this stuff has ever been end-to-end encrypted, so there can't be any way people expect it to be private.
    - xorcist 1y ago
      That's not a revenue stream at any cell phone carrier I've seen. They do what they are legally obliged to do, and while they do get paid for it, it's a fraction of the actual cost of providing the data. The state tends to drive the hell of a bargain. The service providers, such as Facebook, Google and Apple though, that's entirely different.
      - jrockway 1y ago
        Verizon silently opted everyone into sharing their browser history (based on DNS I guess) with advertisers: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/12/verizon-ignored-users-previous-opt-outs-in-latest-push-to-scan-web-browsing/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/12/veriz... I have to imagine that the other companies are doing this as well.
Zak 1y ago
The position of the US executive on encryption can easily shift depending on who holds the presidency and certain cabinet positions. I'm not sure the Trump administration actually has a coherent position on the subject.
- bsimpson 1y ago
  > I'm not sure the Trump administration actually has a coherent position That seems to be the most salient property of his presidency. His position on any issue is whatever he just said, with no regard to what it might have been yesterday.
  - freedomben 1y ago
    For anyone that wants a good (and fair) example of this, check out his positions on the debt ceiling going back to 2012 (and then on every time it's come up since). When he isn't in power raising the debt ceiling is Unamerican, a political ploy and bad. When he is in power, it should be scrapped entirely and should be above politics. He was remarkably frank about it in an interview a year or two ago when he was running for president when he was pressed by the interviewer about the flip-flop, he smiled and said approximately "I wasn't running for president back then"
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      That's just regular old two Santas playbook republicans been running since Reagan.
      - Henchman21 1y ago
        Having observed this for a lifetime, and simultaneously watching the democrats be unable to call out the switch is so incredibly disheartening. It's like watching a cat playing with a mouse before it kills it. I think we're up to the killing part now.
    - tzs 1y ago
      > When he isn't in power raising the debt ceiling is Unamerican, a political ploy and bad. When he is in power, it should be scrapped entirely and should be above politics. It's too bad that when he is in power he does not actually make the latter happen, because it should be scrapped entirely. The only other country with a debt limit set in an absolute amount rather than as a percentage of GDP is Denmark, and they sensibly have set theirs far above their actual debt so it becomes just a legal formality rather than a policy tool. The problem with it in the US is that the debt ceiling limits government borrowing to pay for debts that have already been incurred. It doesn't control the amount of spending or the deficit--that is controlled by the budget that Congress and the President approve. If we can't just scrap it completely, then at least the budget process should be changed so every budget bill must be accompanied by a raise of the debt ceiling by enough to cover whatever extra debt that budget will be adding.

by pyrale 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

patrickmcnamara 1y ago

The UK is not in the EU.

blitzar 1y ago
The UK left the EU so we could persue a far stuipider set of regulations.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  UK: "Parkour!"
pyrale 1y ago
Close enough :)

GeekyBear 1y ago

The U.S. also attempted to force Apple to add a back door just a decade ago. > Tim Cook, the C.E.O. of Apple, which has been ordered to help the F.B.I. get into the cell phone of the San Bernardino shooters, wrote in an angry open letter this week that "the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create." The second part of that formulation has rightly received a great deal of attention: Should a back door be built into devices that are used for encrypted communications? https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/a-dangerous-all-writ-precedent-in-the-apple-case https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/a-dangerous-all-...

reactordev 1y ago
[flagged]
- hobs 1y ago
  I mean Cellebrite has been a public name for a long time now, and LEO pays for that and similar devices which basically launder zero days and physical exploits to get your stuff.
  - reactordev 1y ago
    Correct, they are one known actor...
- jrockway 1y ago
  I don't think anyone's surprised by that. Our emails have literally been used to target ads at us since like 2006. Cell phone carriers are happy to mine voicemail, call logs, SMS, etc. in the hopes of finding a revenue stream that doesn't involve them having to do irritating work like running fiber to cell phone towers. This leaves contact mining as the odd one out, but given how many apps want to see your contacts, you know that those are being sold by at least one of those apps. None of this stuff has ever been end-to-end encrypted, so there can't be any way people expect it to be private.
  - xorcist 1y ago
    That's not a revenue stream at any cell phone carrier I've seen. They do what they are legally obliged to do, and while they do get paid for it, it's a fraction of the actual cost of providing the data. The state tends to drive the hell of a bargain. The service providers, such as Facebook, Google and Apple though, that's entirely different.
    - jrockway 1y ago
      Verizon silently opted everyone into sharing their browser history (based on DNS I guess) with advertisers: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/12/verizon-ignored-users-previous-opt-outs-in-latest-push-to-scan-web-browsing/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/12/veriz... I have to imagine that the other companies are doing this as well.

Zak 1y ago

The position of the US executive on encryption can easily shift depending on who holds the presidency and certain cabinet positions. I'm not sure the Trump administration actually has a coherent position on the subject.

bsimpson 1y ago
> I'm not sure the Trump administration actually has a coherent position That seems to be the most salient property of his presidency. His position on any issue is whatever he just said, with no regard to what it might have been yesterday.
- freedomben 1y ago
  For anyone that wants a good (and fair) example of this, check out his positions on the debt ceiling going back to 2012 (and then on every time it's come up since). When he isn't in power raising the debt ceiling is Unamerican, a political ploy and bad. When he is in power, it should be scrapped entirely and should be above politics. He was remarkably frank about it in an interview a year or two ago when he was running for president when he was pressed by the interviewer about the flip-flop, he smiled and said approximately "I wasn't running for president back then"
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    That's just regular old two Santas playbook republicans been running since Reagan.
    - Henchman21 1y ago
      Having observed this for a lifetime, and simultaneously watching the democrats be unable to call out the switch is so incredibly disheartening. It's like watching a cat playing with a mouse before it kills it. I think we're up to the killing part now.
  - tzs 1y ago
    > When he isn't in power raising the debt ceiling is Unamerican, a political ploy and bad. When he is in power, it should be scrapped entirely and should be above politics. It's too bad that when he is in power he does not actually make the latter happen, because it should be scrapped entirely. The only other country with a debt limit set in an absolute amount rather than as a percentage of GDP is Denmark, and they sensibly have set theirs far above their actual debt so it becomes just a legal formality rather than a policy tool. The problem with it in the US is that the debt ceiling limits government borrowing to pay for debts that have already been incurred. It doesn't control the amount of spending or the deficit--that is controlled by the budget that Congress and the President approve. If we can't just scrap it completely, then at least the budget process should be changed so every budget bill must be accompanied by a raise of the debt ceiling by enough to cover whatever extra debt that budget will be adding.