8 ms·

This doesn't track to me. People have been irrationally afraid of things since the dawn of time, based purely on hearsay (see religion). And surely even the sim

This doesn't track to me. People have been irrationally afraid of things since the dawn of time, based purely on hearsay (see religion). And surely even the simplest of language serves to warn about unseen dangers. Entering the MRI room myself I was very familiar with the dangers of bringing metal inside, to the point where I would second guess myself and my own body. "What if my leg bone actually has metal in it for some reason?!"

Karawebnetwork 1y ago
> "What if my leg bone actually has metal in it for some reason?!" I have a titanium plate in my head, so it's not magnetic. When the MRI tech asked if I had any metal in me, I said I had titanium on my skull. She asked if I was sure it was titanium. I knew it was, but I was nervous, so I said, "I think so." She half-joked, "Well, if it's not, we'll find out real quick." It was titanium. But they never really double-checked or anything. Part of me thinks that because of my age, she could tell it wasn't iron or anything dangerous. But another part of me feels like she honestly didn't care that much and meant it when she said we'd find out fast.
- octopoc 1y ago
  Wouldn’t your head have started to get pulled towards it as you approached, so maybe you could stop approaching once you felt something weird going on in your head?
  - trod1234 1y ago
    Powerful electromagnets don't work like that. They may switch on and off, and if you are in range, the motion is almost instantaneous. Its not like in the movies where you have to be right up on it, and certain materials may attract at higher rates depending on the amount of ferromagnetic materials affected by the flux. Field flux lines may also be warped depending on the geometry so its possible the drop-off wasn't calculated properly during initial facility design, or it changed. Walking through the wrong door can have consequences as the news has reported.
  - nullc 1y ago
    You normally hear it describes as the "field falls off according to inverse cube" but the consider what that means about how the field increases. The effect for magnetic fields is that generally once the field is enough to obviously move an object it's already accelerating uncontrollably.
- Aeolun 1y ago
  It’s probably of the “if it’s in your head, it can’t be anything other than titanium” variety. It’s not like they’re going to break open your head to check.
  - Karawebnetwork 1y ago
    From what I gather, it's between the 80's and 90's that titanium became the norm.
zimpenfish 1y ago
> "What if my leg bone actually has metal in it for some reason?!" I had that constant thought for the 15 minutes of my knee MRI (except s/leg bone/body/). Most discombobulating.
- Aeolun 1y ago
  I had two head MRI’s, and both times I was equally terrified my metal fillings would start bouncing around my head.
- xattt 1y ago
  Wait till you learn about Peripheral Nerve Stimulation effects: https://www.robarts.ca/scholl_group/research/peripheral_nerve_stimulation.html https://www.robarts.ca/scholl_group/research/peripheral_nerv...
- mcv 1y ago
  There's lots of ways we could have metal in our body. A hip replacement, a forgotten piercing, old tooth fillings, maybe you accidentally swallowed some piece of metal. If MRI scanners are this deadly, everybody should be really thoroughly screened and scanned to be allowed into the room. And even into the room next to it. How can the door of that room open while the machine is still turned on? (Edit: apparently the magnets in these machines usually can't be turned off, which changes the question to: how was he allowed to enter the room at all?) But wearing such a heavy chain while accompanying your spouse to an MRI scan, is also not the best move.
  - mystraline 1y ago
    The walls are usually made from mu-metal. This is a metal mixture that blocks/attenuates magnetic energy. Spinning rust hard drives are also made with mu-metal as well.
  - bapak 1y ago
    Indeed. The hospital will pay a lot of money. Metal detectors are insanely cheap, there's no reason why there shouldn't be one before reaching the door as a default cautionary measure.
Workaccount2 1y ago
There are people who flock towards information about technology (probably almost everyone here as well as many in their social circles) and there are people who run from information about technology. I know people who if you tried to explain an MRI to them, would become visibly uncomfortable and search for any way to change the topic.
- balamatom 1y ago
  >I know people who if you tried to explain an $X to them, would become visibly uncomfortable and search for any way to change the topic. Expected behavior. Explanations of complex topics are to be rejected if explainer does not have sufficient authority to make behaver hold-still-and-listen. I know such folk, too, and this is among the thing about people which annoys me to no end. If a MRI tech tried to explain the shit to one such acquaintance, they would try to change the subject like you say. OTOH, if the doctor in charge tries the same, the listener will instead have to zone out. But zoning out is a more expensive operation, as any zooner knows. (Which is why they hold doctors, lawyers, and other semi-priests in high reverence, up to pushing kids to take up these rather joyless professions to the exclusion of all sense.) Peeps here equally well-behaved other way round tho. C-f "mal" = 0. Geez I really needed to witness the absolute by-the-book Freudian slip that can be found at 1:55 of one of the probably infinite interview cuts, then have MRI safety explained to me by hacker noosers on their Monday morning.
  - pfannkuchen 1y ago
    Is law really joyless? IANAL but it seems like competitive puzzle solving, essentially.
    - balamatom 1y ago
      And medicine might, to some, seem like the use of science to save lives, but hey -- a shooting war is also a kind of competitive puzzle solving, and I assume there are people who find joy in that, too.
xattt 1y ago
Both can be true. We learn to fear and respect modern technology because of training and reinforcement that might occur as part of learning. Consider the “Things I Won’t Work With” column. There is a healthy degree of respect for various compounds that’s learned with experience. This is similar to the way that (properly trained) electricians work with electricity, and nuclear plant techs work around radioactive material.
moralestapia 1y ago
Hehe, in my case I used to have a metal filling that was removed, but I was still worried about a missing piece of it or something. Apparently it's not an issue, even if you do have them.
- conradludgate 1y ago
  My first MRI I confirmed I have no metal on my body to the technician, but by the time I was inside I suddenly remembered I have metal fillings. I was so stressed by the time the machine turned on, but yeah no problems at all
  - itishappy 1y ago
    The machine was already on by the time you were in it. The magnet does not get turned off.
    - jpeloquin 1y ago
      True, but the RF coils do get turned on & off. Heating of non-magnetic metal from the radio waves used for scanning is another concern, not just magnetic force.
bapak 1y ago
I think people are just not aware of how bad it is. People might think it's "fork in microwave" oopsie bad, not "fire at the gas station" fatal bad.
- Velorivox 1y ago
  It’s certainly bad enough that you shouldn’t be able to enter a room with an operational MRI machine just like that, as a normal guest with no training and no escort. One cheap RFID reader could have saved a life here.

Karawebnetwork 1y ago

> "What if my leg bone actually has metal in it for some reason?!" I have a titanium plate in my head, so it's not magnetic. When the MRI tech asked if I had any metal in me, I said I had titanium on my skull. She asked if I was sure it was titanium. I knew it was, but I was nervous, so I said, "I think so." She half-joked, "Well, if it's not, we'll find out real quick." It was titanium. But they never really double-checked or anything. Part of me thinks that because of my age, she could tell it wasn't iron or anything dangerous. But another part of me feels like she honestly didn't care that much and meant it when she said we'd find out fast.

octopoc 1y ago
Wouldn’t your head have started to get pulled towards it as you approached, so maybe you could stop approaching once you felt something weird going on in your head?
- trod1234 1y ago
  Powerful electromagnets don't work like that. They may switch on and off, and if you are in range, the motion is almost instantaneous. Its not like in the movies where you have to be right up on it, and certain materials may attract at higher rates depending on the amount of ferromagnetic materials affected by the flux. Field flux lines may also be warped depending on the geometry so its possible the drop-off wasn't calculated properly during initial facility design, or it changed. Walking through the wrong door can have consequences as the news has reported.
- nullc 1y ago
  You normally hear it describes as the "field falls off according to inverse cube" but the consider what that means about how the field increases. The effect for magnetic fields is that generally once the field is enough to obviously move an object it's already accelerating uncontrollably.
Aeolun 1y ago
It’s probably of the “if it’s in your head, it can’t be anything other than titanium” variety. It’s not like they’re going to break open your head to check.
- Karawebnetwork 1y ago
  From what I gather, it's between the 80's and 90's that titanium became the norm.

zimpenfish 1y ago

> "What if my leg bone actually has metal in it for some reason?!" I had that constant thought for the 15 minutes of my knee MRI (except s/leg bone/body/). Most discombobulating.

Aeolun 1y ago
I had two head MRI’s, and both times I was equally terrified my metal fillings would start bouncing around my head.
xattt 1y ago
Wait till you learn about Peripheral Nerve Stimulation effects: https://www.robarts.ca/scholl_group/research/peripheral_nerve_stimulation.html https://www.robarts.ca/scholl_group/research/peripheral_nerv...
mcv 1y ago
There's lots of ways we could have metal in our body. A hip replacement, a forgotten piercing, old tooth fillings, maybe you accidentally swallowed some piece of metal. If MRI scanners are this deadly, everybody should be really thoroughly screened and scanned to be allowed into the room. And even into the room next to it. How can the door of that room open while the machine is still turned on? (Edit: apparently the magnets in these machines usually can't be turned off, which changes the question to: how was he allowed to enter the room at all?) But wearing such a heavy chain while accompanying your spouse to an MRI scan, is also not the best move.
- mystraline 1y ago
  The walls are usually made from mu-metal. This is a metal mixture that blocks/attenuates magnetic energy. Spinning rust hard drives are also made with mu-metal as well.
- bapak 1y ago
  Indeed. The hospital will pay a lot of money. Metal detectors are insanely cheap, there's no reason why there shouldn't be one before reaching the door as a default cautionary measure.

Workaccount2 1y ago

There are people who flock towards information about technology (probably almost everyone here as well as many in their social circles) and there are people who run from information about technology. I know people who if you tried to explain an MRI to them, would become visibly uncomfortable and search for any way to change the topic.

balamatom 1y ago
>I know people who if you tried to explain an $X to them, would become visibly uncomfortable and search for any way to change the topic. Expected behavior. Explanations of complex topics are to be rejected if explainer does not have sufficient authority to make behaver hold-still-and-listen. I know such folk, too, and this is among the thing about people which annoys me to no end. If a MRI tech tried to explain the shit to one such acquaintance, they would try to change the subject like you say. OTOH, if the doctor in charge tries the same, the listener will instead have to zone out. But zoning out is a more expensive operation, as any zooner knows. (Which is why they hold doctors, lawyers, and other semi-priests in high reverence, up to pushing kids to take up these rather joyless professions to the exclusion of all sense.) Peeps here equally well-behaved other way round tho. C-f "mal" = 0. Geez I really needed to witness the absolute by-the-book Freudian slip that can be found at 1:55 of one of the probably infinite interview cuts, then have MRI safety explained to me by hacker noosers on their Monday morning.
- pfannkuchen 1y ago
  Is law really joyless? IANAL but it seems like competitive puzzle solving, essentially.
  - balamatom 1y ago
    And medicine might, to some, seem like the use of science to save lives, but hey -- a shooting war is also a kind of competitive puzzle solving, and I assume there are people who find joy in that, too.

xattt 1y ago

Both can be true. We learn to fear and respect modern technology because of training and reinforcement that might occur as part of learning. Consider the “Things I Won’t Work With” column. There is a healthy degree of respect for various compounds that’s learned with experience. This is similar to the way that (properly trained) electricians work with electricity, and nuclear plant techs work around radioactive material.

moralestapia 1y ago

Hehe, in my case I used to have a metal filling that was removed, but I was still worried about a missing piece of it or something. Apparently it's not an issue, even if you do have them.

conradludgate 1y ago
My first MRI I confirmed I have no metal on my body to the technician, but by the time I was inside I suddenly remembered I have metal fillings. I was so stressed by the time the machine turned on, but yeah no problems at all
- itishappy 1y ago
  The machine was already on by the time you were in it. The magnet does not get turned off.
  - jpeloquin 1y ago
    True, but the RF coils do get turned on & off. Heating of non-magnetic metal from the radio waves used for scanning is another concern, not just magnetic force.

bapak 1y ago

I think people are just not aware of how bad it is. People might think it's "fork in microwave" oopsie bad, not "fire at the gas station" fatal bad.

Velorivox 1y ago
It’s certainly bad enough that you shouldn’t be able to enter a room with an operational MRI machine just like that, as a normal guest with no training and no escort. One cheap RFID reader could have saved a life here.