5 ms·

I remember many years ago the Economist pointed out one of the Rothschilds died young of something that would have been readily solvable with penicillin, but no

by pjc50 1y ago

I remember many years ago the Economist pointed out one of the Rothschilds died young of something that would have been readily solvable with penicillin, but no amount of money could get you something that didn't exist yet. I'm going to go with a cautious "yes" to the first: the ages at death of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_monarchs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_monarchs are not great. "No" on the second (king is never going to have to worry about food security, that's for the peasants) And "life opportunties" .. bit of a divide by zero situation. As king, you technically have all the opportunities. But you can only do things which actually exist at the time. And you're bound by the social and religious conventions of the time, which you mess with at your peril. Doing so worked for Henry VIII but not for the various Georges. See, for example, the controversy over whether James 6 might have been gay.

pjc50 1y ago
Addendum: food security was assured, food choice was very restricted by modern standards. Remember the medieval period is pre-Colombian exchange, so no potatoes, no tomatoes, no peppers. Some spices, but a different range to what modern palates are used to. No refrigeration either, so you're limited to seasonal availability. In the winter that means you're eating a lot of root vegetables and bread, even if as king you're guaranteed a supply of fresh meat and fish (from the royal holdings dedicated to producing it). Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forme_of_Cury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forme_of_Cury This is where you get the memes about shocking medieval Europeans with a time travelling bag of Doritos: both the bag and its contents are completely impossible items for them. Worth noting that durable items could be shipped long distance - precious metals, gems, textiles - but foodstuff shipping was more limited to high value density stuff like spices and the European wine trade. Speaking of wine: no modern stimulants. No coffee, no tobacco, no weed, no cocaine, no opiates. No painkillers, no anasthesia. For all those situations, you have one option: alcohol. A huge number of critical historical decisions were taken by people who would fail a brethalyser.
- defrost 1y ago
  Quite a few precursors to modern stimulants though, there were many Solanaceae (nightshade) variations in Europe, from harmless through high to deadly. Papaver somniferum (opium poppy) got about the place quite a bit (according to archaeologists at least. Hemlock and henbane were both used as painkillers and dulling agents .. up to unconsciousness and death, depending on dosage. Added: Monastery herb gardens often had quite the range, eg: https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-me/blog/articles/7-magic-potions-grown-by-monks/ https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-me/blog/ar...
  - VilleO 1y ago
    Also willow bark was chewed as a painkiller because of the acetylsalicylic acid it contains.
    - IAmBroom 1y ago
      Quite powerful, BTW. I've used it while hiking for a headache. Damn thing tastes like it's half-aspirin, bleh... but the headache went away.
- antonvs 1y ago
  > No refrigeration either, so you're limited to seasonal availability. Well, except for food preserved via pickling, salting, drying, smoking, fermenting, sugaring, and confit. Which makes for quite a long list. Plus, various foods like grains, root vegetables, onions, and even apples could be stored for months using proper techniques. They didn't have the luxury we have of not paying much attention to how we store things and just replacing them when they go bad, so they became quite good at this.
  - artursapek 1y ago
    Exactly. People today seem to forget why fermentation was discovered in the first place.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    > pickling, salting Yes, but also my understanding is that the preservation technique of that name involves much more salt than modern palettes are willing to tolerate, and also salt itself was much more limited in supply. Despite this, salt as a preservative was indeed critical to civilisation. > fermenting True, and also I want to say "blessed are the cheesemakers" etc. here. :)
    - mik1998 1y ago
      There's nothing intolerable about pickled vegetables. I eat them all the time
      - ben_w 1y ago
        Properly picked, as in preserved and can be stored ambient for extended periods, or "pickled" as sold in a supermarket where the small print says "keep refrigerated after opening"? I have been told there is a huge difference between the two.
        watwut 1y ago
        Traditional "properly picked" also had to ve consumed after being open or stored cold. Once you open it, backterias can get in and spread. There is some difference in taste, due to modern additiomal conservants and minor changes in receipta, but not all that much.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- dmurray 1y ago
  > Addendum: food security was assured, food choice was very restricted by modern standards. Not by the standards of the world 5th percentile, as in the question posed. The 5th percentile today is mostly subsistence farming and doesn't have access to imported foods or own a refrigerator (though there probably is one in their local village, and they may well own a mobile phone).
- prmoustache 1y ago
  It doesn't work for everything but clove act as a decent local painkiller. I once broke a tooth and cloves in my mouth made me go through the day until my appointment to the dentist. The taste wasn't so fun though.
  - ddoeth 1y ago
    And I would hazard a guess that the dentist was also only mildly impressed by the smell
- Telemakhos 1y ago
  I don't know where the "no painkillers" meme comes from, but opium's been around forever and is among the easiest drugs to harvest: just lightly score the poppy seed pod and collect the latex. It was as known and available in the middle ages as in the ancient Greek world. https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.92.15_supplement.P4.9-055 https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.92.15_supplement.P... Alcohol, though, is great for dissolving opium into an easily ingestible potion, whence one gets dwale or laudanum.
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    Dwale is technically a nightshade preparation, not opium-based. Laudanum is opium.
- psunavy03 1y ago
  > A huge number of critical historical decisions were taken by people who would fail a breathalyzer. [citation needed] The idea that historically people went around hammered because the water supply was poor is a myth.
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    See the consumption records for the 18th-century American colonists. The rates are astounding. The water myth is not the cause.
IAmBroom 1y ago
Controversy... yeah... Historians have seen the mountain of evidence think one thing, and people ignorant of history who think he had something to do with their favorite version of the Bible know The Lord wouldn't have chosen a gay "author". He wasn't gay, but his many male lovers might have been. :D
KineticLensman 1y ago
> Doing so worked for Henry VIII Apart from his painful, smelly leg ulcers that he had to tolerate for years

by pjc50 1y ago

pjc50 1y ago

Addendum: food security was assured, food choice was very restricted by modern standards. Remember the medieval period is pre-Colombian exchange, so no potatoes, no tomatoes, no peppers. Some spices, but a different range to what modern palates are used to. No refrigeration either, so you're limited to seasonal availability. In the winter that means you're eating a lot of root vegetables and bread, even if as king you're guaranteed a supply of fresh meat and fish (from the royal holdings dedicated to producing it). Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forme_of_Cury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forme_of_Cury This is where you get the memes about shocking medieval Europeans with a time travelling bag of Doritos: both the bag and its contents are completely impossible items for them. Worth noting that durable items could be shipped long distance - precious metals, gems, textiles - but foodstuff shipping was more limited to high value density stuff like spices and the European wine trade. Speaking of wine: no modern stimulants. No coffee, no tobacco, no weed, no cocaine, no opiates. No painkillers, no anasthesia. For all those situations, you have one option: alcohol. A huge number of critical historical decisions were taken by people who would fail a brethalyser.

defrost 1y ago
Quite a few precursors to modern stimulants though, there were many Solanaceae (nightshade) variations in Europe, from harmless through high to deadly. Papaver somniferum (opium poppy) got about the place quite a bit (according to archaeologists at least. Hemlock and henbane were both used as painkillers and dulling agents .. up to unconsciousness and death, depending on dosage. Added: Monastery herb gardens often had quite the range, eg: https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-me/blog/articles/7-magic-potions-grown-by-monks/ https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/inspire-me/blog/ar...
- VilleO 1y ago
  Also willow bark was chewed as a painkiller because of the acetylsalicylic acid it contains.
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    Quite powerful, BTW. I've used it while hiking for a headache. Damn thing tastes like it's half-aspirin, bleh... but the headache went away.
antonvs 1y ago
> No refrigeration either, so you're limited to seasonal availability. Well, except for food preserved via pickling, salting, drying, smoking, fermenting, sugaring, and confit. Which makes for quite a long list. Plus, various foods like grains, root vegetables, onions, and even apples could be stored for months using proper techniques. They didn't have the luxury we have of not paying much attention to how we store things and just replacing them when they go bad, so they became quite good at this.
- artursapek 1y ago
  Exactly. People today seem to forget why fermentation was discovered in the first place.
- ben_w 1y ago
  > pickling, salting Yes, but also my understanding is that the preservation technique of that name involves much more salt than modern palettes are willing to tolerate, and also salt itself was much more limited in supply. Despite this, salt as a preservative was indeed critical to civilisation. > fermenting True, and also I want to say "blessed are the cheesemakers" etc. here. :)
  - mik1998 1y ago
    There's nothing intolerable about pickled vegetables. I eat them all the time
    - ben_w 1y ago
      Properly picked, as in preserved and can be stored ambient for extended periods, or "pickled" as sold in a supermarket where the small print says "keep refrigerated after opening"? I have been told there is a huge difference between the two.
      - watwut 1y ago
        Traditional "properly picked" also had to ve consumed after being open or stored cold. Once you open it, backterias can get in and spread. There is some difference in taste, due to modern additiomal conservants and minor changes in receipta, but not all that much.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
dmurray 1y ago
> Addendum: food security was assured, food choice was very restricted by modern standards. Not by the standards of the world 5th percentile, as in the question posed. The 5th percentile today is mostly subsistence farming and doesn't have access to imported foods or own a refrigerator (though there probably is one in their local village, and they may well own a mobile phone).
prmoustache 1y ago
It doesn't work for everything but clove act as a decent local painkiller. I once broke a tooth and cloves in my mouth made me go through the day until my appointment to the dentist. The taste wasn't so fun though.
- ddoeth 1y ago
  And I would hazard a guess that the dentist was also only mildly impressed by the smell
Telemakhos 1y ago
I don't know where the "no painkillers" meme comes from, but opium's been around forever and is among the easiest drugs to harvest: just lightly score the poppy seed pod and collect the latex. It was as known and available in the middle ages as in the ancient Greek world. https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.92.15_supplement.P4.9-055 https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.92.15_supplement.P... Alcohol, though, is great for dissolving opium into an easily ingestible potion, whence one gets dwale or laudanum.
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  Dwale is technically a nightshade preparation, not opium-based. Laudanum is opium.
psunavy03 1y ago
> A huge number of critical historical decisions were taken by people who would fail a breathalyzer. [citation needed] The idea that historically people went around hammered because the water supply was poor is a myth.
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  See the consumption records for the 18th-century American colonists. The rates are astounding. The water myth is not the cause.

IAmBroom 1y ago

Controversy... yeah... Historians have seen the mountain of evidence think one thing, and people ignorant of history who think he had something to do with their favorite version of the Bible know The Lord wouldn't have chosen a gay "author". He wasn't gay, but his many male lovers might have been. :D

KineticLensman 1y ago

> Doing so worked for Henry VIII Apart from his painful, smelly leg ulcers that he had to tolerate for years