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Similar to when my mother died of cancer while I was in high school but one big difference was how rational and aware the mother in this story was compared to m

Similar to when my mother died of cancer while I was in high school but one big difference was how rational and aware the mother in this story was compared to my mother on her last night and day while undergoing hallucinations from the incredible pain she was experiencing. There were moments where she would recognize you and grip your hand and then she would be lost and rambling and saying nonsense and completely separate from us in another world until finally she took her last breath. This was at-home hospice. Very different than when my father died of ALS a few decades later and the nurses were knowingly and purposefully giving him morphine so that he could suffocate in peace as his diaphragm stopped working but at the same time they slowly killed him with the morphine stopping his breathing, thankfully.

pirate787 1y ago
Its funny we don't have "legal" euthanasia but hospice stopping feeding and fluids, or overdosing painkillers, is a more horrible form of it.
- sdiupIGPWEfh 1y ago
  For the record, having suffered the effects of extreme dehydration before, if someone insists on aiding me in the process of dying (against my wishes) please get it over with quickly. End it with the morphine right off. Dehydration is a miserable process; the immediate misery of thirst aside, the delirium, paranoia, and irritability are not the least bit merciful to inflict on someone, in my personal experience.
- Swizec 1y ago
  We do have ~~legal euthanasia~~ assisted suicide! Several countries and even some US states have some form of it! Just not widely advertised. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United...
  - xyzzy123 1y ago
    I think what OP might have been getting at is that in reality _every_ western country has assisted dying (the nurse will OD the patient on painkillers at a certain point), it's just not legally acknowledged everywhere or widely understood unless you have actually witnessed the end of life process.
    - hobs 1y ago
      Its not everywhere and its very sporadic, but there's many angels of mercy out there. We should not have to make nurses make the choice.
      - thaumasiotes 1y ago
        > We should not have to make nurses make the choice. The nurse shouldn't be making the choice. That responsibility belongs to the family. The family is likely to hate having to make the choice even more than the nurse does. Does this have any implications?
tejohnso 1y ago
> at the same time they slowly killed him with the morphine stopping his breathing, thankfully. Yeah, some places have two forms of assisted death available. Fast assisted death, or slow assisted death. Either way, you're getting medical assistance through the dying process. Not sure why some people feel like slow assisted death should be the only option.
- otabdeveloper4 1y ago
  > Not sure why some people feel like slow assisted death should be the only option. To reduce potential for abuse, obviously. I wouldn't trust the average doctor with proper antibiotic dosing, much less a literal killswitch.
  - amelius 1y ago
    Maybe a stupid thought but why not give the patient a knob to adjust the dose?
    - otabdeveloper4 1y ago
      It's not that hard to kill yourself actually. "Assisted suicide" is for the grey area of mentally/physically incapable people.
- seventhtiger 1y ago
  For the same reason I'm against capital punishment. I don't trust the state with the due dilegence to have direct power over life and death. What happens when care is available but insurance figures assisted death is cheaper? The fact that someone could look at the healthcare system and say "give them the option to kill people" is wild. You can say whatever you want about criteria and process, then I want you to think of the million ways things go wrong when lofty goals are transformed into bureaucracy.
  - tejohnso 1y ago
    > I don't trust the state with the due dilegence Me neither. That's why I'm glad that in any jurisdiction I've seen it available, it always comes down to the patient's choice. > I want you to think of the million ways things go wrong Nothing is perfect but if someone is suffering months or potentially years of pain I'm glad that they have the option to choose to end it legally. > The fact that someone could look at the healthcare system and say "give them the option to kill people" is wild. Nobody says that, maybe that's why it seems so wild. It's the patient that has the option, not the system. "Give patients the choice of end of life treatment that they prefer" is more like it. > due dilegence to have direct power over life and death How do you feel about police carrying firearms with authority to kill base on high pressure, low time, individual decision making?
ethan_smith 1y ago
The morphine wasn't killing him - at proper palliative doses it relieves suffering while the underlying disease causes death, a crucial ethical and medical distinction in end-of-life care.
- cpfohl 1y ago
  The Dr who treated my brother while he was dying explained this really well; the reduced pain can actually extend life (on the order of minutes) because the reduced discomfort/pain allowed him to continue breathing longer than he would have otherwise.
- lynx97 1y ago
  I can't talk about the specific case mentioned here, but... Morphines are indeed used in palliative medicine to unofficially end the suffering. This is a fact that is not talked about much, because it is highly illegal. I had a chat with a palliative doctor just 2 years ago, and she confirmed this to me. At some point, they decide it is finally enough, and overdose. IMO, a very humane approach. I hereby thank everyone involved in such things for taking the risk to shorten the final days of a dying person, to avoid unnecessary pain. I can only hope, when my time comes, that some angel around me will do the same for me.
  - sdiupIGPWEfh 1y ago
    If that's in line with the patient's wishes, cool. Otherwise, not so cool, both for the act of killing someone and for undermining the arguments in favor of legal euthanasia.
  - newsclues 1y ago
    Unofficial MAID.
    - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
      Medical Assistance In Dying, for the curious

pirate787 1y ago

Its funny we don't have "legal" euthanasia but hospice stopping feeding and fluids, or overdosing painkillers, is a more horrible form of it.

sdiupIGPWEfh 1y ago
For the record, having suffered the effects of extreme dehydration before, if someone insists on aiding me in the process of dying (against my wishes) please get it over with quickly. End it with the morphine right off. Dehydration is a miserable process; the immediate misery of thirst aside, the delirium, paranoia, and irritability are not the least bit merciful to inflict on someone, in my personal experience.
Swizec 1y ago
We do have ~~legal euthanasia~~ assisted suicide! Several countries and even some US states have some form of it! Just not widely advertised. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United...
- xyzzy123 1y ago
  I think what OP might have been getting at is that in reality _every_ western country has assisted dying (the nurse will OD the patient on painkillers at a certain point), it's just not legally acknowledged everywhere or widely understood unless you have actually witnessed the end of life process.
  - hobs 1y ago
    Its not everywhere and its very sporadic, but there's many angels of mercy out there. We should not have to make nurses make the choice.
    - thaumasiotes 1y ago
      > We should not have to make nurses make the choice. The nurse shouldn't be making the choice. That responsibility belongs to the family. The family is likely to hate having to make the choice even more than the nurse does. Does this have any implications?

tejohnso 1y ago

> at the same time they slowly killed him with the morphine stopping his breathing, thankfully. Yeah, some places have two forms of assisted death available. Fast assisted death, or slow assisted death. Either way, you're getting medical assistance through the dying process. Not sure why some people feel like slow assisted death should be the only option.

otabdeveloper4 1y ago
> Not sure why some people feel like slow assisted death should be the only option. To reduce potential for abuse, obviously. I wouldn't trust the average doctor with proper antibiotic dosing, much less a literal killswitch.
- amelius 1y ago
  Maybe a stupid thought but why not give the patient a knob to adjust the dose?
  - otabdeveloper4 1y ago
    It's not that hard to kill yourself actually. "Assisted suicide" is for the grey area of mentally/physically incapable people.
seventhtiger 1y ago
For the same reason I'm against capital punishment. I don't trust the state with the due dilegence to have direct power over life and death. What happens when care is available but insurance figures assisted death is cheaper? The fact that someone could look at the healthcare system and say "give them the option to kill people" is wild. You can say whatever you want about criteria and process, then I want you to think of the million ways things go wrong when lofty goals are transformed into bureaucracy.
- tejohnso 1y ago
  > I don't trust the state with the due dilegence Me neither. That's why I'm glad that in any jurisdiction I've seen it available, it always comes down to the patient's choice. > I want you to think of the million ways things go wrong Nothing is perfect but if someone is suffering months or potentially years of pain I'm glad that they have the option to choose to end it legally. > The fact that someone could look at the healthcare system and say "give them the option to kill people" is wild. Nobody says that, maybe that's why it seems so wild. It's the patient that has the option, not the system. "Give patients the choice of end of life treatment that they prefer" is more like it. > due dilegence to have direct power over life and death How do you feel about police carrying firearms with authority to kill base on high pressure, low time, individual decision making?

ethan_smith 1y ago

The morphine wasn't killing him - at proper palliative doses it relieves suffering while the underlying disease causes death, a crucial ethical and medical distinction in end-of-life care.

cpfohl 1y ago
The Dr who treated my brother while he was dying explained this really well; the reduced pain can actually extend life (on the order of minutes) because the reduced discomfort/pain allowed him to continue breathing longer than he would have otherwise.
lynx97 1y ago
I can't talk about the specific case mentioned here, but... Morphines are indeed used in palliative medicine to unofficially end the suffering. This is a fact that is not talked about much, because it is highly illegal. I had a chat with a palliative doctor just 2 years ago, and she confirmed this to me. At some point, they decide it is finally enough, and overdose. IMO, a very humane approach. I hereby thank everyone involved in such things for taking the risk to shorten the final days of a dying person, to avoid unnecessary pain. I can only hope, when my time comes, that some angel around me will do the same for me.
- sdiupIGPWEfh 1y ago
  If that's in line with the patient's wishes, cool. Otherwise, not so cool, both for the act of killing someone and for undermining the arguments in favor of legal euthanasia.
- newsclues 1y ago
  Unofficial MAID.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
    Medical Assistance In Dying, for the curious