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the UK has been a swirling toilet bowl for free speech for years... unfortunately it seems to have accelerated. I really dont understand why parents don't bare

the UK has been a swirling toilet bowl for free speech for years... unfortunately it seems to have accelerated. I really dont understand why parents don't bare the responsibility of their kids internet access as opposed to the expectation the internet raises their kids...

aosaigh 1y ago
Do you have kids? I don’t, so I don’t have any idea how realistic this is. How do you ensure your kids aren’t skirting any blocks you put in place, looking things up with their friends, getting access to a VPN, etc.? I also don’t think this act is the way to address these issues, but I don’t think it’s as easy as just putting everything at the feet of the parents as I imagine it almost impossible to police at home, not to mention at school. When I think of older technologies like television, we have rules and regulations about what can be shown when. Again, this isn’t to say this approach is right, but wanting to regulate isn’t an attack on free speech. It seems there is regularly a tension on HN between free speech absolutists, usually from the US and those more happy to accept regulation, usually from the EU
- iLoveOncall 1y ago
  > How do you ensure your kids aren’t skirting any blocks you put in place, looking things up with their friends, getting access to a VPN, etc.? I don't, because I don't need to. I had unrestricted access to internet when I was my kids age and I turned out just fine, just like the extreme majority of my generation. I know that serious discussions about important topics are enough to make sure that even if my kids do access content that's not meant for children, they're not negatively affected by them, just like I wasn't.
  - aosaigh 1y ago
    The world is a very very different place technologically then when you grew up. Again I don’t have kids, so I’m not in a position to judge, but I can only imagine the pressures on children are completely different nowadays. For example, we didn’t have computers in our pocket 24/7 with all of our peers on the other end influencing us indifferent ways.
    - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
      So you agree the problem isn't the technology but other children...what is the solution then? Ban other children?
      - aosaigh 1y ago
        No I don’t agree with that. Technologies can exacerbate problems.
        skippyboxedhero 1y ago
        We cannot legislate away this problem. We will try, we will fail, and the costs in this case are absolutely massive. Just as an aside, the UK has been doing this for decades. One of the most permanent causes of legislative failure in the UK has been making laws based on media pressure that have potentially huge costs in the future. And as these costs emerge, guess what the only solution is? More interventions. I would suggest that a country which cannot control crime, cannot control borders, has a collapsing economy, cannot house people, etc. has bigger problems than trying to arrest people for saying things on Twitter or shut down end-to-end encryption.
    - p3rls 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - defrost 1y ago
        Bollocks .. some of us predate WWW, some even predate Usenet.
        p3rls 1y ago
        Yeah and I'm sure you ran your mom's phone bill up calling one of those porn BBSes
    - iLoveOncall 1y ago
      > The world is a very very different place technologically then when you grew up. Hmm no it's really not. By the time I was a teenager, porn was easily accessible on the web, social media were in their peak use, etc.
skippyboxedhero 1y ago
Teachers are having to toilet train children as some come to school unable to use a toilet, more children are non-verbal, more children are unable to sit through lessons, the number of children with special needs has skyrocketed, in one council area there was a single taxi firm with a £20m contract to take children to school, not only are there free school meals but some schools are now running breakfast and dinner services because parents can't feed children...no, parents won't take responsibility.
- SturgeonsLaw 1y ago
  And all this is because websites weren't doing age verification? Wow, I'm glad we could solve those problems once and for all with this excellent legislation that doesn't have any side effects whatsoever!
  - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
    no, the problem is parents. all of these are happening at the same time which proves that the issue is that a significant minority of parents are incapable (there is also a reason why this has happened but saying it is verboten). the question of whether the state should try to fix this stuff is irrelevant, it cannot
    - kypro 1y ago
      My GF works in schools helping children who have special needs. It's really sad some of the things she tells me. Many parents of these children will spend all of their child's DLA on giving their hair or nails done. Kids regularly turn up to school hungry and sometimes don't even get presents on their birthdays. Many kids from these backgrounds are seen as little more than cashcows to help their parents get homes and income without having to work.
      - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
        Yes...there is more I would like to say but that is the issue. If you turn having children into a profit-seeking enterprise, you will get bad outcomes. The UK is in the bizarre position where people who should have kids aren't having kids but they are paying for the children of those who shouldn't have kids. The statistics coming out about this are incredible. We are looking at 20-30% of this cohort likely being unable to work at any point in their lifetime.
closewith 1y ago
Parents are responsible for keeping their children safe online, as they are in person. Platforms are also responsible for not allowing their services to be used to abuse children, which is also true offline.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jadamson 1y ago
  No, McDonald's is not responsible if you send your kid to the bathroom unattended and there's a paedo lurking inside. As a wise man once said: > The British legal system is and always has been a litany of injustices dressed up in formal attire. To be avoided at all costs.
  - closewith 1y ago
    It's a common trope on this site that people wholeheartedly believe the legal systems of the world should and do conform to their personal beliefs, no matter how outlandish. I can assure you that this is such a scenario, as a restaurant in the UK is absolutely responsible for providing safe toilets for their customers, especially if a risk has been brought to their attention.

aosaigh 1y ago

Do you have kids? I don’t, so I don’t have any idea how realistic this is. How do you ensure your kids aren’t skirting any blocks you put in place, looking things up with their friends, getting access to a VPN, etc.? I also don’t think this act is the way to address these issues, but I don’t think it’s as easy as just putting everything at the feet of the parents as I imagine it almost impossible to police at home, not to mention at school. When I think of older technologies like television, we have rules and regulations about what can be shown when. Again, this isn’t to say this approach is right, but wanting to regulate isn’t an attack on free speech. It seems there is regularly a tension on HN between free speech absolutists, usually from the US and those more happy to accept regulation, usually from the EU

iLoveOncall 1y ago
> How do you ensure your kids aren’t skirting any blocks you put in place, looking things up with their friends, getting access to a VPN, etc.? I don't, because I don't need to. I had unrestricted access to internet when I was my kids age and I turned out just fine, just like the extreme majority of my generation. I know that serious discussions about important topics are enough to make sure that even if my kids do access content that's not meant for children, they're not negatively affected by them, just like I wasn't.
- aosaigh 1y ago
  The world is a very very different place technologically then when you grew up. Again I don’t have kids, so I’m not in a position to judge, but I can only imagine the pressures on children are completely different nowadays. For example, we didn’t have computers in our pocket 24/7 with all of our peers on the other end influencing us indifferent ways.
  - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
    So you agree the problem isn't the technology but other children...what is the solution then? Ban other children?
    - aosaigh 1y ago
      No I don’t agree with that. Technologies can exacerbate problems.
      - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
        We cannot legislate away this problem. We will try, we will fail, and the costs in this case are absolutely massive. Just as an aside, the UK has been doing this for decades. One of the most permanent causes of legislative failure in the UK has been making laws based on media pressure that have potentially huge costs in the future. And as these costs emerge, guess what the only solution is? More interventions. I would suggest that a country which cannot control crime, cannot control borders, has a collapsing economy, cannot house people, etc. has bigger problems than trying to arrest people for saying things on Twitter or shut down end-to-end encryption.
  - p3rls 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - defrost 1y ago
      Bollocks .. some of us predate WWW, some even predate Usenet.
      - p3rls 1y ago
        Yeah and I'm sure you ran your mom's phone bill up calling one of those porn BBSes
  - iLoveOncall 1y ago
    > The world is a very very different place technologically then when you grew up. Hmm no it's really not. By the time I was a teenager, porn was easily accessible on the web, social media were in their peak use, etc.

skippyboxedhero 1y ago

Teachers are having to toilet train children as some come to school unable to use a toilet, more children are non-verbal, more children are unable to sit through lessons, the number of children with special needs has skyrocketed, in one council area there was a single taxi firm with a £20m contract to take children to school, not only are there free school meals but some schools are now running breakfast and dinner services because parents can't feed children...no, parents won't take responsibility.

SturgeonsLaw 1y ago
And all this is because websites weren't doing age verification? Wow, I'm glad we could solve those problems once and for all with this excellent legislation that doesn't have any side effects whatsoever!
- skippyboxedhero 1y ago
  no, the problem is parents. all of these are happening at the same time which proves that the issue is that a significant minority of parents are incapable (there is also a reason why this has happened but saying it is verboten). the question of whether the state should try to fix this stuff is irrelevant, it cannot
  - kypro 1y ago
    My GF works in schools helping children who have special needs. It's really sad some of the things she tells me. Many parents of these children will spend all of their child's DLA on giving their hair or nails done. Kids regularly turn up to school hungry and sometimes don't even get presents on their birthdays. Many kids from these backgrounds are seen as little more than cashcows to help their parents get homes and income without having to work.
    - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
      Yes...there is more I would like to say but that is the issue. If you turn having children into a profit-seeking enterprise, you will get bad outcomes. The UK is in the bizarre position where people who should have kids aren't having kids but they are paying for the children of those who shouldn't have kids. The statistics coming out about this are incredible. We are looking at 20-30% of this cohort likely being unable to work at any point in their lifetime.

closewith 1y ago

Parents are responsible for keeping their children safe online, as they are in person. Platforms are also responsible for not allowing their services to be used to abuse children, which is also true offline.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jadamson 1y ago
No, McDonald's is not responsible if you send your kid to the bathroom unattended and there's a paedo lurking inside. As a wise man once said: > The British legal system is and always has been a litany of injustices dressed up in formal attire. To be avoided at all costs.
- closewith 1y ago
  It's a common trope on this site that people wholeheartedly believe the legal systems of the world should and do conform to their personal beliefs, no matter how outlandish. I can assure you that this is such a scenario, as a restaurant in the UK is absolutely responsible for providing safe toilets for their customers, especially if a risk has been brought to their attention.