7 ms·
Peep Show is the most realistic portrayal of evil I have seen (2020)
- srb24 1y agoDo you have to live quite so relentlessly in the real world?
- stareatgoats 1y agoI'd prefer to have "evil" as a word removed from language as an archaic symbolic reference to bad things that some people think that other other people do under the influence of malevolent supernatural beings. Redefining evil as something else is still clinging to the religious connotations like a baby to their nappy - for a reason: it's because it elevates my/our value systems from a mere subjective one to that a presumed spiritual realm, and therefore objective of sorts. But the hard truth is that value systems are objectively subjective, and people can be confused, ignorant, frustrated, angry, insane, devoid of empathy, people we don't like, or our enemies - but not evil. It's time to let that term into the dustbin of history.
- benderito 1y agoObjectively, Hitler was just ideologically assertive
- stareatgoats 1y agoSo, you need the supernatural connotations in order to explain that Hitler was bad? Feel free, but to me the problem is the anti-intellectualism of it. Because "evil" is a self-sufficient explanation, which doesn't explain any of the real reasons for the rise of Nazism and cloaks the fact that ethnic cleansing and genocide are very much human behaviors, which history has sadly proven again and again. We're not getting to grips with it by calling it "evil" (or "Evil!!" even), which is mere name-calling, essentially. Name-calling of others that is.
- ElCapitanMarkla 1y agoI’ll tell you what, that crack is really moreish.
- mmasu 1y agoplease Jez, don’t talk about crack!!
- pipeline_peak 1y agoThe twins! The fucking twins. I’m always on about them
- aosaigh 1y agoThis is a good read for fans of the the show. I don’t think the central premise of redefined evil holds up, but it’s a fun read and the analysis of their characters is spot on.
- jkestner 1y agoYeah, I never empathized with Mark and Jez so his thesis falls apart for me. Maybe he’s the baddie?
- nickkell 1y agoYou don't see any of yourself in the pair? I found a lot of their neurotic behaviour relatable. Butter the toast, eat the toast, shit the toast... God, life's relentless.
- Nursie 1y agoI think this is an important point - it's very easy to find oneself slipping into the protagonists' viewpoints, in a lot of media the protagonist is 'good', we see the story unfold from their viewpoint, then sympathise and empathise with them, even when they make mistakes, their motivations were pure, and what’s unfolding isn’t due to problems with them exactly. But in shows like this, in quite a lot of sitcoms with more cringey aspects, the protagonist is not necessarily a good person and they are often undone by their own pettiness, selfishness etc. Certainly in UK comedy anyway. Look at Fawlty Towers, The Office... Blackadder to a certain extent. So when the article says this - > It’s natural when experiencing any story to identify and sympathize with the protagonist. Yes and no - this is something that creators can play with and may make deliberately jarring. See 'Lolita' for an extreme example. The article even brings up Walter White, saying - "we are drawn to root for the primary subject of the story". If you're still rooting for Walter by the end of Breaking Bad... were we watching the same show?
- red-iron-pine 1y agoSeinfeld also dipped into this, IIRC. it was one of the reasons the series finale ended up w/ all of the main characters in jail and having all of their terrible behavior called out.
- danielecook 1y agoI place it in the category of “cringe humor,” and by that standard it’s more cringey than Seinfeld and curb - especially because of the first person shots. It is a great show! Well worth a watch.
- yantrams 1y agoI always refer to it as cringe humour too but for the reason that it makes me physically cringe seeing how they humiliate themselves in social situations - Like NO MARK PLEASE DONT DO THAT! DONT ACT ON THAT IMPULSE PLEASE! kinda thing.
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- mablopoule 1y agoIf you like cringe humor, you might 'enjoy' the web tv show "2Kawaii4Comfort" on YouTube, about late teens/young adults going to an anime convention. It's very well written, and it's the first time I've physically reacted that much to the awkwardness of fictional characters.
- yantrams 1y agoAh nice thank you. This looks like something I might enjoy indeed. Cheers
- randomcarbloke 1y agoit is truly excruciating
- robertlagrant 1y agoI was completely sold when I think it's in the first episode Mark is walking past some lads who accuse him of being a "paedo" and he hurries off thinking to himself "You're not a paedo. You're definitely not a paedo." as they've finally said something bad that doesn't apply to him.
- phist_mcgee 1y agoThe article refers to the banality of evil in realation to Eichmann. There's actually been quite a bit of historical push back on this assertion, which in some ways has been used to rehabilitate Eichmann's image as a bureaucrat. Eichmann while not the chief architect, was definitely partly responsible for the Holocaust's "success" and actively climbed the nazi hierarchy by finding a niche to fill - exterminating jewish people.
- pessimizer 1y agoAnd people just ignore a number of very convincing anecdotes told to Lanzmann from Benjamin Murmelstein, someone who would know, including one with Eichmann personally helping trash the inside of a Vienna synagogue on Kristallnacht.
- JadeNB 1y agoI always thought "the banality of evil" wasn't about minimizing the horror of his actions. It's not saying "what he did wasn't so bad," but "these horrible actions were done not by an obvious villain, but by someone personally unremarkable."
- Lio 1y agoYes. There a tendency to ascribe charisma to the perpetrators of evil. You see this in the fascination with true crime. The reality is far more boring; these horrific actions were perpetrated by someone that occasionally had bad breath.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ants_everywhere 1y agoIn addition to the push back there's the fact that Hannah Arendt -- who coined the phrase "banality of evil" -- was also a lover of Martin Heidegger. Heidegger was an enthusiastic Nazi and Arendt also defended him. Some people see the "banality of evil" book as essentially being a defense of Eichmann.
- tab_jockey 1y ago· Lies to a woman about accidentally killing her dog to try to sleep with her (also tries to burn the dog corpse and dispose of it)
- zxexz 1y agoAnd then claims it’s a barbecue turkey, and eats it in front of her in an attempt to save face.
- throwaway984393 1y ago[dead]
- simonw 1y agoIf you haven't heard of Peep Show but you enjoyed Succession you should know that Jessie Armstrong, the creator and showrunner of Succession, was previously one half of the Jessie Armstrong and Sam Bain pair responsible for Peep Show. I find the similarities between the two shows fascinating: in particular the way they both revel in how flawed their central characters are.
- willio58 1y agoAs someone who loves peepshow I might have to finally give succession a go!
- walthamstow 1y agoAnd likewise their new comedy movie taking the piss out of tech bros, Mountainhead.
- xnorswap 1y agoHe also wrote a very good first series episode of Black Mirror, "The Entire History of You".
- jgalt212 1y ago[flagged]
- tclancy 1y agoThass a bad miss. (Admittedly, the next show)
- reagle 1y agoSo they were the baddies?
- mvdtnz 1y agoDifferent show.
- csmattryder 1y agoChance'd be a fine thing, a fine thing indeed!
- kjellsbells 1y agoOn the topic of evil, this sketch from Mitchell and Webb stayed with me for years. Are we the baddies? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY Every villain is the hero in their own story, after all.
- disposablese 1y agoI wish there were a somewhat acceptable, though controversial, way for us to distinguish between good and evil like how success is defined by disposable wealth. You can argue that society does not see it that, but there is no absolute way to denying it.
- labster 1y agoDid you miss the day they taught ethical calculus in maths class?
- alanbernstein 1y ago[flagged]
- blitzar 1y agoNo more or less evil than our one
- alanbernstein 1y agoYes, as requested by the comment I replied to. Acknowledging the existence of a thing is not equivalent to condoning it.
- grues-dinner 1y agoAnd, as popularly imagined, substantially more fictional.
- two_handfuls 1y ago> success is defined by disposable wealth Are you sure?
- annie_muss 1y agoThis article really makes sense. I think back on my past and all the evil actions I have taken have all been fed by very low self-worth and insecurity. When you think of yourself as below everyone else, trying to bring them down to your level with malicious acts can feel like quite reasonable. You're "punching up" so you can feel a sense of righteous justification. It's only looking back that I realize I wasn't nearly as weak as I thought.
- mablopoule 1y agoAnother TV show that played with this concept well is "30 Rocks", with the main protagonist dreading to go to her high school reunion because she was a nerdy girl mocked by the high-school bully, As the episode go on, she realize that she was the bully, everyone was terrified of her and her extremely cruel remarks, including her friend who was afraid of her, turning the whole 'underdog nerd' trope on it's head. On a more serious note, this is also why I'm wary of the "punching up" or "punching down" rethoric, because it's often easy to downplay any form of violence as justified retribution.
- stavros 1y agoI wish the show were called "30 Rocks" now, and was about gemstones.
- jancsika 1y ago> nor in the exaggerated cartoony manner of other comedic anti-heroes I'm not sure I understand the focus on realism here. I mean, there's absolutely nothing in any scene of The Thick of It that looks at all realistic to me. But it captures the essence of incompetence, corruption, and opportunism so completely that reading actual news stories inescapably brings to mind scenes from that series.
- aa-jv 1y agoI found The Thick of It very realistic, having travelled quite a few corporate realms. That show made me re-think my involvement in society.
- jl6 1y ago> If Peep Show has any sort of singular thematic message, it’s that low self-esteem is the root of all evil. Interestingly this is a similar conclusion that the Unabomber came to in Industrial Society and its Future: https://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/188/materials/Industrial%20Society%20and%20Its%20Future.pdf https://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/188/materials/In... Kaczynski called out low self-esteem as one of several foundational components in the psychology of his hated enemies (“leftists”), whom he believed to be the primary scourge of society (ironic, coming from a mass murderer). Modern analysis of incel culture also places low self-esteem at the center of the problem.
- MrScruff 1y agoTangental but it's interesting to read Kaczynski's bio after listening to a podcast about the Zizian cult over the weekend, some very clear parallels in personality type.
- 4gotunameagain 1y agoIs the CIA involved again like it was with MKUltra in Kaczynski's case ?
- 4gotunameagain 1y agoIndiscriminate murderer, sure. Mass murderer ? Doesn't fit the bill.
- nylonstrung 1y agoOne of his bombs was on a plane with 78 people but it malfunctioned So mass murder was definitely the intent
- togetheragainor 1y agoI intended to be a billionaire, but alas, nobody would call me a billionaire
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- Duanemclemore 1y agoMy summary when recommending it to others has always been that Mark has no dignity and Jez has no shame. This is a much longer (and well worth the read) development of basically that.
- lewdwig 1y ago“Evil” is not a medical diagnosis but the classical understanding of evil does overlap quite strongly with the so-called “dark triad” of personality disorders of antisocial personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder and machiavellianism. It’s quite startling how often characters in sitcoms tend to demonstrate traits of these three disorders and for a long while I wondered why. Then I realized the answer is very simple: it’s really funny (when it’s not happening to you).
- thom 1y agoIs much added with this talk of evil? Peep Show seems largely the same sort of tragicomic tale of hubris and human frailty that we see in Shakespeare or even all the way back in Ancient Greece.
- mgoetzke 1y agoWould love to have a look at that show based on that description. Alas, as is the way in 2025, no streaming services here have it, looking for it on Amazon was not helpful either (and offered some embarrassing suggestions instead).
- Y_Y 1y agoIn that case it would be evil not to look further afield. I only trust large American media companies of course, so in this regard I would look to RDDT ( https://www.nyse.com/quote/XNYS:RDDT https://www.nyse.com/quote/XNYS:RDDT ) for guidance at this so-called "megathread": https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/wiki/megathread/movies_and_tv/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/wiki/megathread/movies_and_t...
- romeinaday 1y agoIt's free on YouTube.
- mlsu 1y ago> To Arendt, that was the scariest thing of all – that such evil could be perpetrated by so banal an individual. My takeaway from Eichmann was not that Eichmann _wasn't_ a horrible person. It's very clear that he is horrible, that he had full knowledge of what he was doing. Her characterization of him was actually comical. Totally irreverent of the man. (and, made the book quite a fun read) But I think Eichmann made a deeper point. "Banality" described his self-conception. The way his place in society was created for him, and the way he used it, not even to justify and rationalize his actions, but to simply allow himself to work without thinking towards the evil that transpired. The way that Nazi society created a mechanism by which he could, by default and without effort, continue working, in spite of obvious evidence of cruelty. In fact, seeing the gas vans up close was disturbing to Eichmann, as it would be to anyone. She generalized the mechanism beyond the Nazis (the controversy of the book was that it pointed out how closely the Jews of Europe assisted Eichmann with his work). It is these "default", "without effort" positions that we take, in all of our daily lives, that ultimately are evil. Although Eichmann was a particularly stupid and egregious example, we all have little sayings that we say to ourselves that allow us to ignore the cruelty and evil that happens in front of our face as a result of the structures we find ourselves in. And therefore: that it is our moral duty to see what's in front of us and reject wherever possible the "default" or "passive" position. Eichmann was notable because of his utter inability to do that. Nothing more. So, I think I disagree with the author, the root of evil is cowardice.
- brazzy 1y ago> In fact, seeing the gas vans up close was disturbing to Eichmann, as it would be to anyone. And the gas vans (and chambers) were already an deliberate effort to make mass murder more palatable to those committing it. In the early stages, the Holocaust was done not with gas, but with bullets. But the Nazi leadership found that their troops could not stomach mass shootings, not even the SS. Many started to drink too much, or started to talk too much. A few reveled in it - which in turn was something the leadership could not stomach: they had framed the actions to themselves as distasteful but crucial to ensure the survival of the German people, they did not want it to be executed by homicidal maniacs. Thus, gas chambers: the person pressing the button doesn't have to see people die, and the disposal of the bodies can be outsourced to local labor, even to future victims. Much easier on the conscience.
- yakshaving_jgt 1y agoIf you haven't watched Peep Show, you absolutely must watch Peep Show.
- hallero 1y agoI have categorized Peep Show as "social horror". This article nails the point in even harder.
- jakebennet89 1y ago[flagged]
- alimw 1y agoToday I learned the adjective "elite-coded". Also "autological".