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TL;DR: mostly what I mean is Go is the only language from this millennium that's consistently in the top 10 most popular programming languages. >> This require

TL;DR: mostly what I mean is Go is the only language from this millennium that's consistently in the top 10 most popular programming languages. >> This requires you to squint so that "popular" happens to identify only a handful of languages but conveniently catches Go and not say Swift or Rust. It's not difficult to do this, but it's not very honest to yourself. > You seem to be arguing that Go is more popular than Rust, but that's not what we're talking about. Isn't this exactly what we're talking about? I don't think you have to squint too hard to invent the gap between Go and Rust (et al). > So apparently "popular" might mean 9th like Ada on TIOBE's list right? No because it's only on that list. > Or maybe "modern" includes Typescript, on several of these lists? No because TypeScript is JavaScript, which is from the last millennium. > No, the whole contrivance is silly. Emotionally I agree with you, but in practice you gotta pick a stack, and there's a lot of benefit to choosing Go over Rust/Kotlin/Swift/TypeScript/Java/C#/C/C++/Ada. > Go is a relatively popular modern language, nobody is surprised to discover that. Eh I'm making the Stroustrup "there's two kinds of programming languages" argument. IMO, at this point Go criticisms are just jeers from the cheap seats.

tialaramex 1y ago
> TL;DR: mostly what I mean is Go is the only language from this millennium that's consistently in the top 10 most popular programming languages. So, if you don't count the lists where it isn't in the top ten, and you don't count languages like Typescript? Does that feel like an important distinction to you with the exceptions, rather than an arbitrary post doc justification ? > Isn't this exactly what we're talking about? I don't think you have to squint too hard to invent the gap between Go and Rust (et al). Likewise for Go and Python or Javas, so why the "top 10" ? Arbitrary. > TypeScript is JavaScript No. Javascript is (very bad) Typescript, but Typescript is not Javascript. That's why they have a transpiler. If you contend that the similarity means they're the same language that makes C++ also C and I don't think you want to start that fight. My pithy response to the Stroustrup argument is a T-shirt I own which says "Haters gonna make some good points". Yes of course people will criticize your popular language, but this observation does not make the criticisms untrue, and resorting to Stroustrup's argument is best understood as an admission that he has no response to the actual criticism. C++ is remarkably bad. You're looking at popularity lists. What else is on those lists which has similar levels of criticism? Go is a long way short of perfect but it's nowhere close to C++. If Go is the Stallone "Judge Dredd" then maybe C++ is "Batman & Robin".
- camgunz 1y ago
  (I've successfully resisted the urge to make my entire reply "Wait, you don't like Judge Dredd?") I feel like we both understand each other at this point so I'll ask because I'm curious, what languages are you into? I'd really like a chance to dig into Erlang, OCaml, or Racket, but I can never really justify it. Mostly I'm a boring C/Python person (believe it or not, I don't like Go all that much)
  - tialaramex 1y ago
    On my own time? I write only Rust for several years. I currently get paid to write, among other things, C#, Python, PHP, Perl, and bash. Historically I have also been paid to write C, Java, and Go, among other things.
  - tialaramex 1y ago
    Oh also, well, "Judge Dredd" was just not a very good movie. Not reprehensibly bad. Nobody involved should be sorry for making it, but not worth the price of a ticket. Swing and a miss. In contrast "Batman & Robin" is terrible. Clooney said he didn't want friends and family to see it because he is rightfully ashamed to have done it. Sometimes an actor does good work but it's hard to see because the technicians are incompetent and the editor destroys their effort in the cut - however it's clear Clooney was not trying. Alicia Silverstone has been in utter trash, some of which I have watched because I used to live with a guy who was obsessed with her - but it's notable that even the icky "technically this isn't pornography" stuff she did as a teenager is more competent than "Batman & Robin" for which she was presumably much better paid. Joel Schumacher can do excellent work so why is "Batman & Robin" so awful? Did the Studio tell him nothing else matters so long as the branding is there because comic book fans will show up anyway? If so maybe it's partly their fault, but a good artist should have more pride in their own work than to do this. I have more recently (well, this century) gone to a "live MST3K" type event where they screen the original film but talk over it. They warned us that "Batman & Robin" is too awful for this format to save it, but I didn't listen and yeah, long before the closing credits lots of people walked out because they were right and it's unsalvageable.

tialaramex 1y ago

> TL;DR: mostly what I mean is Go is the only language from this millennium that's consistently in the top 10 most popular programming languages. So, if you don't count the lists where it isn't in the top ten, and you don't count languages like Typescript? Does that feel like an important distinction to you with the exceptions, rather than an arbitrary post doc justification ? > Isn't this exactly what we're talking about? I don't think you have to squint too hard to invent the gap between Go and Rust (et al). Likewise for Go and Python or Javas, so why the "top 10" ? Arbitrary. > TypeScript is JavaScript No. Javascript is (very bad) Typescript, but Typescript is not Javascript. That's why they have a transpiler. If you contend that the similarity means they're the same language that makes C++ also C and I don't think you want to start that fight. My pithy response to the Stroustrup argument is a T-shirt I own which says "Haters gonna make some good points". Yes of course people will criticize your popular language, but this observation does not make the criticisms untrue, and resorting to Stroustrup's argument is best understood as an admission that he has no response to the actual criticism. C++ is remarkably bad. You're looking at popularity lists. What else is on those lists which has similar levels of criticism? Go is a long way short of perfect but it's nowhere close to C++. If Go is the Stallone "Judge Dredd" then maybe C++ is "Batman & Robin".

camgunz 1y ago
(I've successfully resisted the urge to make my entire reply "Wait, you don't like Judge Dredd?") I feel like we both understand each other at this point so I'll ask because I'm curious, what languages are you into? I'd really like a chance to dig into Erlang, OCaml, or Racket, but I can never really justify it. Mostly I'm a boring C/Python person (believe it or not, I don't like Go all that much)
- tialaramex 1y ago
  On my own time? I write only Rust for several years. I currently get paid to write, among other things, C#, Python, PHP, Perl, and bash. Historically I have also been paid to write C, Java, and Go, among other things.
- tialaramex 1y ago
  Oh also, well, "Judge Dredd" was just not a very good movie. Not reprehensibly bad. Nobody involved should be sorry for making it, but not worth the price of a ticket. Swing and a miss. In contrast "Batman & Robin" is terrible. Clooney said he didn't want friends and family to see it because he is rightfully ashamed to have done it. Sometimes an actor does good work but it's hard to see because the technicians are incompetent and the editor destroys their effort in the cut - however it's clear Clooney was not trying. Alicia Silverstone has been in utter trash, some of which I have watched because I used to live with a guy who was obsessed with her - but it's notable that even the icky "technically this isn't pornography" stuff she did as a teenager is more competent than "Batman & Robin" for which she was presumably much better paid. Joel Schumacher can do excellent work so why is "Batman & Robin" so awful? Did the Studio tell him nothing else matters so long as the branding is there because comic book fans will show up anyway? If so maybe it's partly their fault, but a good artist should have more pride in their own work than to do this. I have more recently (well, this century) gone to a "live MST3K" type event where they screen the original film but talk over it. They warned us that "Batman & Robin" is too awful for this format to save it, but I didn't listen and yeah, long before the closing credits lots of people walked out because they were right and it's unsalvageable.