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Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t b

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that. But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Products that were once expensive and exclusive are now available, at good-enough quality, to billions more people around the world. Yes, that trade-off can mean shorter lifespans or less repairability. But on balance, widening access is a moral win, and one made possible by the very progress the article seems to mourn.

djfivyvusn 1y ago
I'm not convinced the widening access to American consumerism is a moral win. The amount of fossil fuels we're dependent on as a species is obscene. I worry for our children. There is no offramp, only growth.
- panick21_ 1y ago
  This is one of these philosophies that I hate more then almost any other. The idea that is bad that poor Indian and Chinese people now have access to anything from clean water to planes is absurd. You can sit there in your luxury house and cry about consumer culture but for millions of people its basic stuff that they have access to for the first time. And in Europe, despite increasing quality of live, both total energy consumption and fossil fuel consumption is going down. Now part of this is export of emissions to China but China own growth explains the majority of it. Continued growth is good, and only continued growth and better technology will get humanity off fossil fuels. Fossil fuels have been a net good for society and still are!
  - myaccountonhn 1y ago
    The reason it's seen as bad is because there are not enough natural resources to sustain such a consumption, and many of these countries (esp India) will practically become unhabitable if global warming continues like it does. There are very few signs that technology will be able to fix this. No one is against clean access to water...
    - pas 1y ago
      there are of course more than enough "natural resources" to sustain such consumption, the problem is paradoxically the opposite, too much easy to extract shit that we then emit into our own environment the fix is also not complicated (remove GHG from the air, remove endocrine disruptors from the food cycle, etc.) the costs are high though, but not that high, compared to - for example - the famines of past but as population will peak - at least for now - and as we continue to ramp up renewable energy generation these problems are not insurmountable in any sense ... places affected by storms and extreme heat/cold days need better infrastructure, but since urbanization continues to drive people to cities (as it did for the last few hundreds of years) these places need new and better infrastructure anyway!
      - simgt 1y ago
        > the fix is also not complicated (remove GHG from the air, remove endocrine disruptors from the food cycle, etc.) Are you abstracting away the technical complexity when stating that it's not complicated? GHG removal tech that would scale simply doesn't exist if we intend to have some energy left to do anything else, as for removing pfas and microplastics from the environment, we are at the stage of running experiments in petri dishes. And even if we abstract away the technical complexity, good luck convincing anyone to stop burning the free fuel we have lying around doing nothing now that we have everything-nuclear-solar and GHG removal at scale. We can barely convince our councils to build cycle lanes in dense areas if that removes any space for SUVs. I wish I'd share the blind optimism of people like you, it seems pleasant to live in your heads...
        pas 1y ago
        ah, sorry, I am not optimistic, I just accepted that it's not a technical, logistical, or "resource constraints" problem it's a coordination problem as you mentioned based on this I moved to a place where I think things are a bit less crazy with regards to that (well, famous last comments ...eheh)
        simgt 1y ago
  - anthk 1y ago
    Fossil fuels will crumble down when the ITER gets working well. China already did some experiments on salts based nuclear plants, but no fusion jet. Still, the days for the uber-polluted Beijing are numbered. It will change drastically.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    You're giving a very poor reading of OP's argument, first of all. Jumping to the conclusion that they don't want Chinese people to have clean water is downright bad faith. Second, "continued growth is good" is a hell of a thing to say on a planet with finite resources. There's a limit! And if you expand your worldview to include other life on this planet and not just society then we've pushed far beyond what's wise already.
    - rizs12 1y ago
      China is a developed country! This dialogue about Chinese people and clean water is bizarre
      - mandmandam 1y ago
        Fair point, I ought have made that clear. There are many ways in which Chinese people have it better than Americans these days, if my eyes are to be believed.
        djfivyvusn 1y ago
        Insane take.
        mandmandam 1y ago
        That's not how we talk here. Also, I was defending your argument lol. But still, I'll bite - how so? Because I see videos like this: https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1947556095779610961 https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1947556095779610961 or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiNrcHhDTsI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiNrcHhDTsI And I compare them to, say, any American city. You can't watch those and seriously believe that there couldn't possibly be any aspects of Chinese life which are superior, and further, to think that's "insane". Those aren't cherry-picked videos. There are thousands out there, if you care to look; watch xiaomanyc's videos and there's simply no denying your eyes. Their cars are better, their night life is better, their food is better, their housing is better, their daily lives are better, in many, many ways. Not every way, but in many ways - which is what I said. You've been propagandized your whole life to think America is number one, but that was only even remotely true before 'we' pissed away our future on genocidal forever wars to make the 0.1% a little wealthier. Now most people see America negatively. Literally the vast majority of countries have an overall negative opinion of America; and we're seen as the number one threat to peace and stability. Chinese people used to think they're hearing propaganda when they hear American's stories about health insurance, or the political scene - because to them, that's impossible to believe. Yet what you find impossible to believe is that they might have it better in some ways. I hope you have a good long think about that.
  - rizs12 1y ago
    Lmao how can you say 'poor Indian and Chinese people' in the same sentence? China is a first world country
    - djfivyvusn 1y ago
      No it's not. 50c army out today.
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jmrm 1y ago
I would add that sometimes when people usually say that rancid phrase of "they don't make it as they used to", they are comparing expensive products in the past with cheap ones in the present. Most of those "good 'ol" goods exist, but probably are pretty/too expensive for what we are used to pay.
- mihaic 1y ago
  While that's sometimes the case, those expensive products were the norm, and now no longer exist as an accessible option. For many products, the market went with cheap and crappy, and quality became a niche that is no longer available in the general economy, and can only be found with great cost and effort.
mayas_ 1y ago
Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.
- cantor_S_drug 1y ago
  That is uniquely american or first world experience. I won't comment on the mechanisms of wealth transfer from rest of the world to first world. The rest of the world has been very hardworking and trying to make it one day at a time. Here's an example. A Day in Life of Africa’s Wooden Scooter Crew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk
  - lioeters 1y ago
    Great recommendation, I'm watching it now. It reminds me of another documentary about a festival with hand-built vehicles made of recycled Vespas that are extremely customized. Indonesia’s Tricked Out Vespas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg
- jstummbillig 1y ago
  > Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Adjusted for inflation, car prices are actually lower now than decades ago, especially factoring in huge safety and tech improvements. Entry-level models remain affordable, while buyers voluntarily pay more for SUVs and tech-heavy EVs. > Housing is becoming a luxury. Rising housing prices are mostly driven by land scarcity and zoning. The actual cost per square meter of construction (build quality) has improved and remains stable. > Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Nope. Electronics, clothing, and appliances have become dramatically cheaper. Quality-adjusted prices for TVs and computers have plummeted. > Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship. Craftsmanship is alive and well, if you are willing to pay for it. Which most consumers are not; they prefer being able to afford more things at lower prices and quicker tech cycles.
  - 1y ago
cantor_S_drug 1y ago
Thos who think quality has decreased should watch this youtube shorts channel. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LqnWuMD6DU8 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LqnWuMD6DU8
koliber 1y ago
You are highlighting the difference between theory and practice. In theory we can make higher quality things, but in practice we are not doing it. Quality has gone down.

djfivyvusn 1y ago

I'm not convinced the widening access to American consumerism is a moral win. The amount of fossil fuels we're dependent on as a species is obscene. I worry for our children. There is no offramp, only growth.

panick21_ 1y ago
This is one of these philosophies that I hate more then almost any other. The idea that is bad that poor Indian and Chinese people now have access to anything from clean water to planes is absurd. You can sit there in your luxury house and cry about consumer culture but for millions of people its basic stuff that they have access to for the first time. And in Europe, despite increasing quality of live, both total energy consumption and fossil fuel consumption is going down. Now part of this is export of emissions to China but China own growth explains the majority of it. Continued growth is good, and only continued growth and better technology will get humanity off fossil fuels. Fossil fuels have been a net good for society and still are!
- myaccountonhn 1y ago
  The reason it's seen as bad is because there are not enough natural resources to sustain such a consumption, and many of these countries (esp India) will practically become unhabitable if global warming continues like it does. There are very few signs that technology will be able to fix this. No one is against clean access to water...
  - pas 1y ago
    there are of course more than enough "natural resources" to sustain such consumption, the problem is paradoxically the opposite, too much easy to extract shit that we then emit into our own environment the fix is also not complicated (remove GHG from the air, remove endocrine disruptors from the food cycle, etc.) the costs are high though, but not that high, compared to - for example - the famines of past but as population will peak - at least for now - and as we continue to ramp up renewable energy generation these problems are not insurmountable in any sense ... places affected by storms and extreme heat/cold days need better infrastructure, but since urbanization continues to drive people to cities (as it did for the last few hundreds of years) these places need new and better infrastructure anyway!
    - simgt 1y ago
      > the fix is also not complicated (remove GHG from the air, remove endocrine disruptors from the food cycle, etc.) Are you abstracting away the technical complexity when stating that it's not complicated? GHG removal tech that would scale simply doesn't exist if we intend to have some energy left to do anything else, as for removing pfas and microplastics from the environment, we are at the stage of running experiments in petri dishes. And even if we abstract away the technical complexity, good luck convincing anyone to stop burning the free fuel we have lying around doing nothing now that we have everything-nuclear-solar and GHG removal at scale. We can barely convince our councils to build cycle lanes in dense areas if that removes any space for SUVs. I wish I'd share the blind optimism of people like you, it seems pleasant to live in your heads...
      - pas 1y ago
        ah, sorry, I am not optimistic, I just accepted that it's not a technical, logistical, or "resource constraints" problem it's a coordination problem as you mentioned based on this I moved to a place where I think things are a bit less crazy with regards to that (well, famous last comments ...eheh)
        simgt 1y ago
- anthk 1y ago
  Fossil fuels will crumble down when the ITER gets working well. China already did some experiments on salts based nuclear plants, but no fusion jet. Still, the days for the uber-polluted Beijing are numbered. It will change drastically.
- mandmandam 1y ago
  You're giving a very poor reading of OP's argument, first of all. Jumping to the conclusion that they don't want Chinese people to have clean water is downright bad faith. Second, "continued growth is good" is a hell of a thing to say on a planet with finite resources. There's a limit! And if you expand your worldview to include other life on this planet and not just society then we've pushed far beyond what's wise already.
  - rizs12 1y ago
    China is a developed country! This dialogue about Chinese people and clean water is bizarre
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      Fair point, I ought have made that clear. There are many ways in which Chinese people have it better than Americans these days, if my eyes are to be believed.
      - djfivyvusn 1y ago
        Insane take.
        mandmandam 1y ago
        That's not how we talk here. Also, I was defending your argument lol. But still, I'll bite - how so? Because I see videos like this: https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1947556095779610961 https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1947556095779610961 or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiNrcHhDTsI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiNrcHhDTsI And I compare them to, say, any American city. You can't watch those and seriously believe that there couldn't possibly be any aspects of Chinese life which are superior, and further, to think that's "insane". Those aren't cherry-picked videos. There are thousands out there, if you care to look; watch xiaomanyc's videos and there's simply no denying your eyes. Their cars are better, their night life is better, their food is better, their housing is better, their daily lives are better, in many, many ways. Not every way, but in many ways - which is what I said. You've been propagandized your whole life to think America is number one, but that was only even remotely true before 'we' pissed away our future on genocidal forever wars to make the 0.1% a little wealthier. Now most people see America negatively. Literally the vast majority of countries have an overall negative opinion of America; and we're seen as the number one threat to peace and stability. Chinese people used to think they're hearing propaganda when they hear American's stories about health insurance, or the political scene - because to them, that's impossible to believe. Yet what you find impossible to believe is that they might have it better in some ways. I hope you have a good long think about that.
- rizs12 1y ago
  Lmao how can you say 'poor Indian and Chinese people' in the same sentence? China is a first world country
  - djfivyvusn 1y ago
    No it's not. 50c army out today.
deleted 1y ago
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deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

jmrm 1y ago

I would add that sometimes when people usually say that rancid phrase of "they don't make it as they used to", they are comparing expensive products in the past with cheap ones in the present. Most of those "good 'ol" goods exist, but probably are pretty/too expensive for what we are used to pay.

mihaic 1y ago
While that's sometimes the case, those expensive products were the norm, and now no longer exist as an accessible option. For many products, the market went with cheap and crappy, and quality became a niche that is no longer available in the general economy, and can only be found with great cost and effort.

mayas_ 1y ago

Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

cantor_S_drug 1y ago
That is uniquely american or first world experience. I won't comment on the mechanisms of wealth transfer from rest of the world to first world. The rest of the world has been very hardworking and trying to make it one day at a time. Here's an example. A Day in Life of Africa’s Wooden Scooter Crew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk
- lioeters 1y ago
  Great recommendation, I'm watching it now. It reminds me of another documentary about a festival with hand-built vehicles made of recycled Vespas that are extremely customized. Indonesia’s Tricked Out Vespas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg
jstummbillig 1y ago
> Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Adjusted for inflation, car prices are actually lower now than decades ago, especially factoring in huge safety and tech improvements. Entry-level models remain affordable, while buyers voluntarily pay more for SUVs and tech-heavy EVs. > Housing is becoming a luxury. Rising housing prices are mostly driven by land scarcity and zoning. The actual cost per square meter of construction (build quality) has improved and remains stable. > Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Nope. Electronics, clothing, and appliances have become dramatically cheaper. Quality-adjusted prices for TVs and computers have plummeted. > Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship. Craftsmanship is alive and well, if you are willing to pay for it. Which most consumers are not; they prefer being able to afford more things at lower prices and quicker tech cycles.
- 1y ago

cantor_S_drug 1y ago

Thos who think quality has decreased should watch this youtube shorts channel. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LqnWuMD6DU8 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LqnWuMD6DU8

koliber 1y ago

You are highlighting the difference between theory and practice. In theory we can make higher quality things, but in practice we are not doing it. Quality has gone down.