5 ms·

>Oh, that's a common misunderstanding, but they can't sue me in court – by accepting me as a customer, they accepted my binding arbitration agreement! It clearl

>Oh, that's a common misunderstanding, but they can't sue me in court – by accepting me as a customer, they accepted my binding arbitration agreement! It clearly said so on my luggage tag their authorized agent (i.e. the bellboy) handled as part of check-in. Why can't there be a human membership union that sets these automatic binding arbitration agreements on service providers on behalf of members? Is there any law preventing a class of people from creating such a customer's union?

vkou 1y ago
> Why can't there be a human membership union that sets these automatic binding arbitration agreements on service providers on behalf of members? Those already exist, we call those things 'governments'.
- idiotsecant 1y ago
  I think we got some wires crossed somewhere, my government is helping them beat me up more ...
  - cyanydeez 1y ago
    That's because another group of people made a pact with the devil, and a third group just shrugged their shoulders when everyone had a chance to nullify that pact....
  - vkou 1y ago
    It takes constant vigilance to prevent that union from being captured by management.
    - bmitc 1y ago
      That's a great analogy. Government = worker's/consumer's/people's union. Management = capitalism/corporations.
      - MaxZero101 1y ago
        What is capitalism?
    - int_19h 1y ago
      Being captured by the management is its normal state, that's how it evolved in the first place.
  - delusional 1y ago
    Assuming you live in a democracy (we'll see if America still counts in 3 years), elect a better one.
    - gblargg 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - scoofy 1y ago
        Yes it is. “Democracy” from the Greek: “common people rule” and “Republic” from the Latin: “the thing, public.” Republic and democracy mean the same damn thing, rule by the people as opposed to rule by a monarch.
        pksebben 1y ago
        In what way is this country ruled by the people? You're periodically given a non-choice between two options that have equal disdain for your actual concerns, who then go on to play games to see who can get the most bajiliionare backing for reelection, and if you don't like what they're doing you're perfectly free to vote for the OTHER jerk who also doesn't give a shit about you. This is oligarchy. The 'democratic' process is a smokescreen, and an increasingly thin one. Look up 'liquid democracy'. It's the best example of what an actual democracy might look like if we did it. We won't, but I also enjoy Blade Runner and Star Trek, so there's no harm in fiction.
        scoofy 1y ago
        Oh, god, this tired nonsense. Yes, obviously, it's ruled by the people. We have parties, we vote, anyone can run for office. Anyone can vote third party, and they occasionally even win. That your neighbors don't share your views does not make it undemocratic. It's not perfect, but it's democratic. It's like people can no longer imagine living under a totalitarian state... where you don't even get a vote, and if you don't like what's happening and you say something about it, you're shot. That's literally the way things were done before democracies and republics existed... it's still the way things are done in places like North Korea.
NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
When someone cheats and swindles you, you don't win by cheating and swindling them more. Even if you succeed, now the world is just that more swindle-y than it was the day before, and swindling has become a way of life. The correct and only solution is for Congress to define what constitutes someone agreeing to a contract, and penalizing anyone who even raises the notion in a court of law that you have agreed to something without having performed that statutory gesture. First, agreements can't be made unless both parties are present. If they don't bother to send a representative to you with a piece of paper, not an agreement. If they don't get your signature on the paper (or some legislatively defined equivalent), not an agreement. If they've attempted to hide or cheat or confuse, such that it's not apparent, nothing has been agreed. This would get rid of much of the bullshit we have today with EULAs, binding arbitration horseshit, and all the other chicanery. Have Congress make it a law.

vkou 1y ago

> Why can't there be a human membership union that sets these automatic binding arbitration agreements on service providers on behalf of members? Those already exist, we call those things 'governments'.

idiotsecant 1y ago
I think we got some wires crossed somewhere, my government is helping them beat me up more ...
- cyanydeez 1y ago
  That's because another group of people made a pact with the devil, and a third group just shrugged their shoulders when everyone had a chance to nullify that pact....
- vkou 1y ago
  It takes constant vigilance to prevent that union from being captured by management.
  - bmitc 1y ago
    That's a great analogy. Government = worker's/consumer's/people's union. Management = capitalism/corporations.
    - MaxZero101 1y ago
      What is capitalism?
  - int_19h 1y ago
    Being captured by the management is its normal state, that's how it evolved in the first place.
- delusional 1y ago
  Assuming you live in a democracy (we'll see if America still counts in 3 years), elect a better one.
  - gblargg 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - scoofy 1y ago
      Yes it is. “Democracy” from the Greek: “common people rule” and “Republic” from the Latin: “the thing, public.” Republic and democracy mean the same damn thing, rule by the people as opposed to rule by a monarch.
      - pksebben 1y ago
        In what way is this country ruled by the people? You're periodically given a non-choice between two options that have equal disdain for your actual concerns, who then go on to play games to see who can get the most bajiliionare backing for reelection, and if you don't like what they're doing you're perfectly free to vote for the OTHER jerk who also doesn't give a shit about you. This is oligarchy. The 'democratic' process is a smokescreen, and an increasingly thin one. Look up 'liquid democracy'. It's the best example of what an actual democracy might look like if we did it. We won't, but I also enjoy Blade Runner and Star Trek, so there's no harm in fiction.
        scoofy 1y ago
        Oh, god, this tired nonsense. Yes, obviously, it's ruled by the people. We have parties, we vote, anyone can run for office. Anyone can vote third party, and they occasionally even win. That your neighbors don't share your views does not make it undemocratic. It's not perfect, but it's democratic. It's like people can no longer imagine living under a totalitarian state... where you don't even get a vote, and if you don't like what's happening and you say something about it, you're shot. That's literally the way things were done before democracies and republics existed... it's still the way things are done in places like North Korea.

NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago

When someone cheats and swindles you, you don't win by cheating and swindling them more. Even if you succeed, now the world is just that more swindle-y than it was the day before, and swindling has become a way of life. The correct and only solution is for Congress to define what constitutes someone agreeing to a contract, and penalizing anyone who even raises the notion in a court of law that you have agreed to something without having performed that statutory gesture. First, agreements can't be made unless both parties are present. If they don't bother to send a representative to you with a piece of paper, not an agreement. If they don't get your signature on the paper (or some legislatively defined equivalent), not an agreement. If they've attempted to hide or cheat or confuse, such that it's not apparent, nothing has been agreed. This would get rid of much of the bullshit we have today with EULAs, binding arbitration horseshit, and all the other chicanery. Have Congress make it a law.