5 ms·

> when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people still choose the normal-size device with better screen/battery/camera. My theory is that much of this effect

by amluto 1y ago

> when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people still choose the normal-size device with better screen/battery/camera. My theory is that much of this effect is an error, or at least a far-less-than-ideal effort, on the part of the designers. Of course it’s hard to sell a low-end “mini” device with a worse camera, worse battery life, etc. But that’s not actually what I, or many people I discuss this with, want. I would happily buy a premium device that is short and narrow, and possibly even thicker as a tradeoff. There’s plenty of unexplored room in the design space here. For example: start with an iPhone Pro or whatever the Android equivalent du jour is. Keep the camera unchanged. Shrink the display but keep the same quality (at least equal pixel density). Now puff out the back so that the camera lenses are flat or even slightly recessed. Use the resulting added volume to compensate for the decrease in volume due to decreasing the other dimensions. Market the think as a Whatever Phone Pro Compact, and advertise clearly that the battery life is every bit as good as the non-Compact model version. Show off cool pictures models sticking this thing in their cool jeans pockets without them sticking out. Charge the same price as the ordinary Pro model. As far as I know, no one has tried anything like this in recent memory. The iPhone 12 and 13 Mini were always marketed as the cheaper versions, and the cute little old SE model was very much a low-end version. Last I checked, there was no 5G Android device with similar dimensions from any manufacturer.

nextos 1y ago
Unihertz sells some decent Android phones that have 3 and 5 inch displays, respectively: https://www.unihertz.com https://www.unihertz.com AFAIK, these are similar to the iPhone SE? The SE form factor was great in terms of size and thickness. Easy to use with one hand. I miss that.
- sensen 1y ago
  The Jelly Max looks really tempting, but I'm a little apprehensive after running the Jelly Star for a while and dealing with constant dropped calls and bad call quality all around.
  - Knork-and-Fife 1y ago
    I'm in a similar boat. I really (really!) wanted to love the jelly star (when I used it for almost a month), but on Verizon I didn't have an LTE signal most of the time in the Seattle area, including downtown, which I find unreasonable. Also the battery life was horrible, 20% per hour of active use and 4% per hour of standby. Using the jelly star proved that using a small screen is not a problem for me and I would gladly pay money for an experience like that. But it also proved that it is not an acceptable option in terms of quality. Hopefully the Jelly Max is better in these regards. I think Jelly Max the ideal size for me too (jelly star was a little too small for doing driving navigation). I'll keep an ear out
  - roytam87 1y ago
    It looks quite good, but I missed 3.5mm audio jack.
- gsa 1y ago
  Unihertz devices fill a gap but are subpar phones in terms of hardware. They also don't get any software updates the minute after they are launched.
  - seanssel 1y ago
    I would be all over the Unihertz stuff if that wasn’t the case. I see people talking about Lineage working, but I haven’t looked into it. My ideal phone is something small and rugged with physical keys that supports Android Auto for navigation and a few other basic apps I need (Bitwarden basically).
    - selectodude 1y ago
      Your phone basically exists from Unihertz. You just refuse to buy it. Which, well…
      - seanssel 1y ago
        I’m not completely against it yet, especially if it looks like I can use something like Lineage. Software aside, I’ve heard mixed things about the keyboard on the Titan. Keeping an open mind though, I would like to support companies filling this niche.
  - lbrito 1y ago
    >They also don't get any software updates the minute after they are launched. If you install Lineage or something, isn't that essentially a non-issue? Otherwise those seem great! Never heard of them.
    - onli 1y ago
      No official LineageOS support according to https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/. And no, missing vendor support is still an issue even with Lineage support, as soon as firmware (and sometimes driver) updates are needed.
Topfi 1y ago
> The iPhone 12 and 13 Mini were always marketed as the cheaper versions [...] No, they were not. They were literally a scaled down version of their respective regular sized counterparts, the 13 Mini had the same cameras, SOC, memory, screen quality and storage options as the regular 13 [0], yet its sales success (or lack thereof [1]) was enough to instantly cure me of any previously held notions that there is a sufficiently large group of buyers for these devices out there. It isn't because the specs are inferior, the cameras are changed, the display has a lower pixel density (the Mini actually had slightly higher ppi) or anything else. There simply is no sufficient market, the 13 Mini was the worst selling phone in that generation by a frankly impressive margin. 38% for iPhone 13 vs 3% for iPhone 13 mini, despite them being as close to just being scaled down and otherwise identical as one can make a phone speaks a very clear language that any manufacturer wanting to succeed has hear loud and clear. Most certainly why Asus has seized with their more compact smartphones. The amount of people I know that praised Asus for making a more compact flagship with a very large battery [2] was not in any way proportional to their sales. In this case, the battery life was actually superior to many larger competitors. Same for my Xperia 5 V, the compact phone I bought and used at the time, cause I walk my talk and have been following phone releases to a sufficient degree that I can assure everyone, there have been and are flagship speced, compact phones with good battery life, that no one ever buys. I'd love more options in the market, heck, I use both the Xperia 5 and an iPhone 15 Pro Max in a Clicks case, either for different situations, so am on both sides as a consumer. Simply, the lack of any actual market demand beyond online comments makes that impossible, we need to be honest here. [0] https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-13/specs/ [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-unpopular-march-quarter/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-unpopula... [2] https://www.asus.com/mobile-handhelds/phones/zenfone/zenfone-9/ https://www.asus.com/mobile-handhelds/phones/zenfone/zenfone...
- nordsieck 1y ago
  For a while, I was optimistic that Apple would at least continue to release the SE every 3-ish years. I'm guessing they wanted to finally kill the fingerprint reader and other SE-specific features[1]. And maybe even the SE with its reduced price didn't sell that well. --- 1. Yes, I understand that these features were present in other phones, but the SE was the last phone actively sold by Apple that had them
raydev 1y ago
> much of this effect is an error, or at least a far-less-than-ideal effort No, the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers, increasingly so after the rise of TikTok. I have family members in their 30s who don't have laptops or TVs, all media is consumed through their phone, and for most kids/teens across the world it is their primary video consumption device. The average person is trying to maximize screen size relative to portability. And the market is everyone on earth. That's it.
- aziaziazi 1y ago
  There’s a bias here: video consumption is continuous, somewhat long and eye catching (both the movement on the screen and the focussed-starring position à la "look at the sky!"). Therefore we’re more encline to notice video consumption than other usages like music, navigation or notifications check. Don’t take me wrong: I do agree that "the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers", but the duration/day is not uniform and many don’t want/need to carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging group.
  - rickdeckard 1y ago
    > Therefore we’re more encline to notice video consumption than other usages [..] That's not relevant, as this is then forming our decision at the point-of-sale towards a media consumption device. > many don’t want/need to carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging group. Only while no media is consumed. Many people take less than one photo a day on average, but still the camera quality is a dominant decision-factor. I'd even argue that the majority of price-premium paid by a customer today is for camera and display. Those will be the factors at the point of sale to decide whether to pay 50-100 USD more or not...
  - ujkiolp 1y ago
    ur point is invalid. the market doesnt have this small device because of not enough demand. simple as that
- lowwave 1y ago
leptons 1y ago
Maybe you haven't heard, but Samsung has been making folding phones that fold up to be very small. The Galazy Flip 7 is pretty much what you describe as far as easily being able to fit in a pants pocket, has plenty of battery life, high-res screen, and it even flips out to have a large screen. No, folding phones are not a gimmick, been using a fold 4 for a few years and it's been amazing. https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-z-flip7/buy/galaxy-z-flip7-512gb-unlocked-sku-sm-f766udbexaa https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-z-flip7/buy/ga...

by amluto 1y ago

nextos 1y ago

Unihertz sells some decent Android phones that have 3 and 5 inch displays, respectively: https://www.unihertz.com https://www.unihertz.com AFAIK, these are similar to the iPhone SE? The SE form factor was great in terms of size and thickness. Easy to use with one hand. I miss that.

sensen 1y ago
The Jelly Max looks really tempting, but I'm a little apprehensive after running the Jelly Star for a while and dealing with constant dropped calls and bad call quality all around.
- Knork-and-Fife 1y ago
  I'm in a similar boat. I really (really!) wanted to love the jelly star (when I used it for almost a month), but on Verizon I didn't have an LTE signal most of the time in the Seattle area, including downtown, which I find unreasonable. Also the battery life was horrible, 20% per hour of active use and 4% per hour of standby. Using the jelly star proved that using a small screen is not a problem for me and I would gladly pay money for an experience like that. But it also proved that it is not an acceptable option in terms of quality. Hopefully the Jelly Max is better in these regards. I think Jelly Max the ideal size for me too (jelly star was a little too small for doing driving navigation). I'll keep an ear out
- roytam87 1y ago
  It looks quite good, but I missed 3.5mm audio jack.
gsa 1y ago
Unihertz devices fill a gap but are subpar phones in terms of hardware. They also don't get any software updates the minute after they are launched.
- seanssel 1y ago
  I would be all over the Unihertz stuff if that wasn’t the case. I see people talking about Lineage working, but I haven’t looked into it. My ideal phone is something small and rugged with physical keys that supports Android Auto for navigation and a few other basic apps I need (Bitwarden basically).
  - selectodude 1y ago
    Your phone basically exists from Unihertz. You just refuse to buy it. Which, well…
    - seanssel 1y ago
      I’m not completely against it yet, especially if it looks like I can use something like Lineage. Software aside, I’ve heard mixed things about the keyboard on the Titan. Keeping an open mind though, I would like to support companies filling this niche.
- lbrito 1y ago
  >They also don't get any software updates the minute after they are launched. If you install Lineage or something, isn't that essentially a non-issue? Otherwise those seem great! Never heard of them.
  - onli 1y ago
    No official LineageOS support according to https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/. And no, missing vendor support is still an issue even with Lineage support, as soon as firmware (and sometimes driver) updates are needed.

Topfi 1y ago

> The iPhone 12 and 13 Mini were always marketed as the cheaper versions [...] No, they were not. They were literally a scaled down version of their respective regular sized counterparts, the 13 Mini had the same cameras, SOC, memory, screen quality and storage options as the regular 13 [0], yet its sales success (or lack thereof [1]) was enough to instantly cure me of any previously held notions that there is a sufficiently large group of buyers for these devices out there. It isn't because the specs are inferior, the cameras are changed, the display has a lower pixel density (the Mini actually had slightly higher ppi) or anything else. There simply is no sufficient market, the 13 Mini was the worst selling phone in that generation by a frankly impressive margin. 38% for iPhone 13 vs 3% for iPhone 13 mini, despite them being as close to just being scaled down and otherwise identical as one can make a phone speaks a very clear language that any manufacturer wanting to succeed has hear loud and clear. Most certainly why Asus has seized with their more compact smartphones. The amount of people I know that praised Asus for making a more compact flagship with a very large battery [2] was not in any way proportional to their sales. In this case, the battery life was actually superior to many larger competitors. Same for my Xperia 5 V, the compact phone I bought and used at the time, cause I walk my talk and have been following phone releases to a sufficient degree that I can assure everyone, there have been and are flagship speced, compact phones with good battery life, that no one ever buys. I'd love more options in the market, heck, I use both the Xperia 5 and an iPhone 15 Pro Max in a Clicks case, either for different situations, so am on both sides as a consumer. Simply, the lack of any actual market demand beyond online comments makes that impossible, we need to be honest here. [0] https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-13/specs/ [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-unpopular-march-quarter/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-unpopula... [2] https://www.asus.com/mobile-handhelds/phones/zenfone/zenfone-9/ https://www.asus.com/mobile-handhelds/phones/zenfone/zenfone...

nordsieck 1y ago
For a while, I was optimistic that Apple would at least continue to release the SE every 3-ish years. I'm guessing they wanted to finally kill the fingerprint reader and other SE-specific features[1]. And maybe even the SE with its reduced price didn't sell that well. --- 1. Yes, I understand that these features were present in other phones, but the SE was the last phone actively sold by Apple that had them

raydev 1y ago

> much of this effect is an error, or at least a far-less-than-ideal effort No, the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers, increasingly so after the rise of TikTok. I have family members in their 30s who don't have laptops or TVs, all media is consumed through their phone, and for most kids/teens across the world it is their primary video consumption device. The average person is trying to maximize screen size relative to portability. And the market is everyone on earth. That's it.

aziaziazi 1y ago
There’s a bias here: video consumption is continuous, somewhat long and eye catching (both the movement on the screen and the focussed-starring position à la "look at the sky!"). Therefore we’re more encline to notice video consumption than other usages like music, navigation or notifications check. Don’t take me wrong: I do agree that "the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers", but the duration/day is not uniform and many don’t want/need to carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging group.
- rickdeckard 1y ago
  > Therefore we’re more encline to notice video consumption than other usages [..] That's not relevant, as this is then forming our decision at the point-of-sale towards a media consumption device. > many don’t want/need to carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging group. Only while no media is consumed. Many people take less than one photo a day on average, but still the camera quality is a dominant decision-factor. I'd even argue that the majority of price-premium paid by a customer today is for camera and display. Those will be the factors at the point of sale to decide whether to pay 50-100 USD more or not...
- ujkiolp 1y ago
  ur point is invalid. the market doesnt have this small device because of not enough demand. simple as that
lowwave 1y ago

leptons 1y ago

Maybe you haven't heard, but Samsung has been making folding phones that fold up to be very small. The Galazy Flip 7 is pretty much what you describe as far as easily being able to fit in a pants pocket, has plenty of battery life, high-res screen, and it even flips out to have a large screen. No, folding phones are not a gimmick, been using a fold 4 for a few years and it's been amazing. https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-z-flip7/buy/galaxy-z-flip7-512gb-unlocked-sku-sm-f766udbexaa https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-z-flip7/buy/ga...