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I've noticed some folks, seemingly on principle say that older folks should keep working, basically until they die, presumably because they don't want them to c
by techpineapple 1y ago
I've noticed some folks, seemingly on principle say that older folks should keep working, basically until they die, presumably because they don't want them to collect social security or other entitlements, but does that end up having the negative economic impact of making it harder for young folks to find jobs?
- cit3worker 1y agoplease do not blame this on "old people" anyone in corporate america in a hiring position knows the prevailing trend -- you either hire h1b (for maximum leverage) or overseas (for cost savings). we've been told to hire h1b ONLY.
- careersuicide 1y agoYou have a moral duty to report your employer for this. Frankly it should be treated the same as treason.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> it should be treated the same as treason No, it shouldn’t. Treason has a specific meaning.
- aspenmayer 1y agoIt’s anti-American behavior against a person in America as opposed to against the nation specifically. An attack on one is an attack on us all.
- chaosharmonic 1y agoLots of things are anti-American behavior. Most of those things aren't joining up with a foreign adversary with whom we're officially at war. Even things that are treasonous in a colloquial sense are still pretty narrow, and tend to refer to other specific forms of betraying your country, that just happen to be other crimes -- like espionage, or insurrection.
- MangoToupe 1y ago> Most of those things aren't joining up with a foreign adversary with whom we're officially at war. Adversary to the people, or the state? These are wildly different concepts. Just because my state has beef with China doesn't mean they can't convince me that my life is better with China in it. Sometimes states just misrepresent the people.
- chaosharmonic 1y agoRight, but in the same vein, the British crown has a documented history of applying that label to dissidents. It was part of why were revolted in the first place. Our definition for what constitutes treason is purposely narrow specifically due to the abuse potential.
- aspenmayer 1y agoI think it is anti-American to discriminate on the basis of origin. Where you are from has no bearing on many if not most jobs. I may not be making the point you think I’m making, I’m making a nuanced point that we have a duty to report treason, and we have a duty to report whatever it is when you have an ongoing state of affairs in which there exists a stated or effective policy of only (or never) hiring a certain group of people.
- janalsncm 1y agoIs it anti American to favor Americans for jobs?
- aspenmayer 1y agoI’m not sure, can you make an argument for why it should be?
- Muromec 1y agoIt’s just the free market. It it with a big spoon, you asked for it
- janalsncm 1y agoFree market isn’t a pass to do illegal things. There are many free market things that are illegal. Some would even be considered treasonous.
- unethical_ban 1y agoTreason is a strong word. It is a knowingly detrimental action against American workers and companies to dodge requirements for hiring skilled foreign workers. The focus and the main point remains: It's unethical, it's illegal, and I wish punishment on the companies and the individuals who fraudulently scam American workers out of jobs.
- appleaday1 1y agostoph1b.com, we have a sub lets organize.
- MangoToupe 1y agoTreason isn't even a legal concept. Who cares about any given meaning without that? If it strikes you as treason, that's as good a reason to call it treason as any. Personally, I think there's lots of treason that pervades our life. Hell you could argue the meaning of "national interest" used by our state department is itself treasonous. Any definition of the word will come down to what you perceive as in our interests. For easy examples, see Snowden and Manning.
- astrange 1y ago> Treason isn't even a legal concept. https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-3/section-3/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-3/section-3...
- MangoToupe 1y agoSorry, perhaps I should have said "not a well-defined legal concept", or else we would surely all be enemies of the state.
- mathiaspoint 1y ago[flagged]
- klipklop 1y agoReport what? They say everything verbally in a closed office. There is no paper trail. Even if there was, the entire industry and current administration are in complete alignment on this issue. They want to reduce labor costs.
- plandis 1y ago> we've been told to hire h1b ONLY If you’re not being hyperbolic, this seems like fraud on the part of whoever is submitting visa applications for your company.
- WorkerBee28474 1y agoWhich doesn't mean it isn't common.
- esseph 1y agoSounds about right.
- horns4lyfe 1y agoYa welcome to reality
- zeroCalories 1y agoI actually do blame this on old people. The reason jobs are being shipped overseas is because western workers are not productive enough to justify their premium. Work culture is part of that, but stuff like zoning and the welfare state is the main culprit.
- esseph 1y agoThis is actually not at all correct. US productivity per worker has gone up for a very long time. https://www.economicstrategygroup.org/publication/in-brief-us-labor-productivity/#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20a%202019%20AESG%20policy,prior%20waves%20of%20productivity%20growth. https://www.economicstrategygroup.org/publication/in-brief-u...
- techpineapple 1y agoI'm not blaming this on "old people", and certainly not "old people" who want to work, I'm blaming it on a government that artificially deflates the retirement rate.
- alfalfasprout 1y agoyep. H1B needs a major reform. Unfortunately both the democratic party and the GOP is against reforming it.
- appleaday1 1y agostoph1b.com
- MangoToupe 1y agoI work at a Fortune 100 and for the most part, we can ONLY hire citizens and do not use H1Bs without a particularly strong reason. Curiously, I'd estimate we still hire 80% naturalized citizens.
- pirate787 1y agoThis is a common misconception about the economy. There is not a fixed pie of jobs to be distributed. Rather, the opposite is generally true, the more people working the more growth and innovation and the more opportunities and capacity for employment.
- techpineapple 1y ago"the more people working the more growth and innovation and the more opportunities and capacity for employment" So if I'm understanding this causal relationship you're suggesting, the problem is too many people are rejecting employment, and if more people wanted to work there would be more jobs?
- exe34 1y ago[flagged]
- Nevermark 1y agoAlso, he taking inspiration from Indiana and putting a 4.5% tariff on all imported circles.
- tonyedgecombe 1y agoNext they will be telling us about their new perpetual motion machine.
- Nevermark 1y agoWhile a pure perpetual motion machine isn't possible, "life", "economy", "knowledge" are all things that not only strongly tend to grow but compound. More people working doesn't just mean more jobs filled. It means more people making money and spending it, so more people needed on the supply side. The fact that it sounds circular doesn't make it bad logic in this case. It's actually a magnitude increasing spiral. All funded by the Sun.
- nradov 1y agoPeople who worked in the USA are entitled to collect Social Security once they are old enough. This applies regardless of whether they are still working. In other words, current income doesn't reduce Social Security benefits.
- jibe 1y agoIt would help, because they’d be paying payroll taxes into the system even as they were collecting benefits.
- readthenotes1 1y agoThere are tax disincentives to working while collecting social security.
- koolba 1y agoSure, but there’s similar tax disincentives to seeking more gainful employment as well.
- stockresearcher 1y agoThe social security taxes you pay are used to buy credits. You can buy a maximum of 4 credits per year. Once you have 40 credits you are allowed to draw benefits from the system - when you are old enough. If you only have 39 credits, you don’t get social security. When you go to collect benefits, there is a complicated formula based on income records that is used to turn your taxes paid into what is essentially a lifetime annuity. If you keep working, you keep paying social security taxes and you keep buying credits, but your annuity doesn’t change - you are forfeiting 100% of the tax you paid.
- xyzzy9563 1y agoThere's infinite potential jobs. Doing anything useful is a job.
- exe34 1y agoNo, doing something people are willing to pay for is a job.
- logicchains 1y agoThis isn't true because of the minimum wage: if people would be willing to pay you less than the minimum wage for something useful, but not more, that's not a job.
- Muromec 1y agoThat’s un-American!
- y-curious 1y agoThe minimum wage makes it illegal to work if you don't have the skills for minimum wage work. I wish more people understood this
- astrange 1y agoThere is no credible evidence that reasonable minimum wages have lowered employment in practice[0], and there are theoretical reason to believe it can increase it[1]. That said, the Australian and Danish systems are the best because they're more flexible. [0] This holds up to about 60% of median wages. You can imagine it'd lower the hours some people get before it entirely makes them unemployed. [1] One is that it provides price signals to monopsony employers. Another is that it reduces search costs in the labor market by basically acting as a spam filter that gets rid of time-wasting job offers.
- y-curious 1y agoCurious what you think about the UK, then. A software engineer in the UK makes 45k GBP on average. A minimum wage salary there (at 12.21 GBP per hour) is ~22k a year. The wage squeeze between skilled professional and minimum wage surely lowers the amount of people entering skilled professions
- aspenmayer 1y agoI never looked at it like that. Perhaps allowing folks to work after retirement age is a form of age discrimination to a certain reading. Social Security should be sufficient for everyone’s retirement. If it isn’t, that’s a separate issue, and is also effectively another form of age discrimination, promising a funded retirement and the other party not upholding their end of the bargain.
- MangoToupe 1y agoInterestingly you can trace the establishment of the retirement age, and of social security, directly to the frustration that younger people can't easily compete with lifelong workers.