4 ms·

- toe-walking, walking on the balls of the feet - in-toeing, walking with one or both feet turned inwards - out-toeing, walking with one or both feet turned o

- toe-walking, walking on the balls of the feet - in-toeing, walking with one or both feet turned inwards - out-toeing, walking with one or both feet turned out. I thought that toe walking was called out two decades ago when I was in university - I remember it being mentioned in a psych class. Otherwise, that kind of includes everyone who doesn't walk with feet straight, doesn't it?

hungmung 1y ago
Yeah at least a few kindergarten and elementary school teachers were watching out for toe walkers since at least around the mid-90's. Source: I know people.
- Der_Einzige 1y ago
  The school bullies sniffed out autistic kids like pigs on truffles with this being a clear tell.
nitwit005 1y ago
I also remember that, and asymmetric baby crawling. That was decades back. I guess the real "news" is just that it made it into the DSM: > Having an "odd gait" is now listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders as a supporting diagnostic feature of autism.
generalizations 1y ago
Basically a measure of whether or not you make an effort to emulate your peers. If you naturally walk weird and don't care about fitting in, then....you're probably on the spectrum.
- hx8 1y ago
  That's one potential explanation for gait differences. It's also possible that muscle development plays a role, or motor control, or sensory feedback, or a confluence of factors. I'd be particularly interested in seeing if these gait differences are limited to childhood, or if they persist into adulthood. It might simply be delaying a developmental step.
  - generalizations 1y ago
    IIRC, toe-walking is actually healthier and puts less strain on the foot. It's a very good way to run long distance, once the muscles are acclimated. I suspect some of us still do that naturally as children for that reason and therefore only adjust due to societal pressure.
    - Melatonic 1y ago
      I think you are mistaking toe-walking with landing fairly flat footed (the way most people tend to run with more minimalist barefoot style shoes) Running purely on the balls of your feet seems like its more of a sprinting thing
      - generalizations 1y ago
        It's def also a sprinting thing, but it can also be a normal running gait - it lets your leg muscles serve as shock absorbers. And if you've ever heard of the description of an athletic person as someone with a 'cat-like' walking gait, I think toe-walking is what's meant.
        swores 1y ago
        Anecdotally, I played football (soccer) as a kid, and multiple coaches taught me that it's better to rest with weight on balls of feet rather than heels for the benefit of being able to quickly move in any direction rather than being planted on the spot. It was just about when standing still or walking slowly, they never tried to adjust how I ran (though maybe if I'd been in a more professional level they would have), but I can imagine that sort of training might well have affected how I walk if I kept playing into adulthood.
Telemakhos 1y ago
People should be careful with basing psychological stereotypes on gait, as there's already an extensive legacy framework of stereotypes based on gait—are these new stereotypes meaningfully different medical observations grounded in facts, or are they just more stereotypes? Literature on Native Americans, for example, often claims that they walk on the balls of the feet in distinction to "the Anglo," who walks on his heels. For example: > Our sources say that Native Americans tended to land on the ball of the foot (a "forefoot strike"), or flat-footed ("midfoot strike"), rather than landing on the heel and rolling forward ("heel strike"). [0: 90] > Our sources indicate that Native Americans commonly walked with toes pointed straight ahead or turned slightly inward, rather than turned outward. [0: 91] I've pulled just one article here, but there's a huge trove of racial and ethnic gait stereotypes with all sorts of moral implications. It's important not to repeat that stereotyping when trying to address autism. [0] Ranalli, B. 2019. "Thoreau's Indian Stride." The Concord Saunterer 27: 89-110. https://www.jstor.org/stable/45271429 https://www.jstor.org/stable/45271429
- kulahan 1y ago
  Your comment doesn’t really support its own premise well - you just say that we used to stereotype people and point out what some of those stereotypes were, but not why they’re radically incorrect. You sorta just pointed out that they exist. I’m not of one opinion or the other, I just don’t see why it’s self evident that certain groups of people wouldn’t walk a certain way.
  - markburns 1y ago
    I had a realisation recently that we’re pretty comfortable with regional dialect borders being an entrenched and normal thing that reach back in history a thousand years or more and that something as specific as how we move our mouths and tongues is strongly correlated geographically. But we don’t often pay attention to other types of physical and behavioural culture being as geographically entrenched as they sometimes seem to be. Accents hold some special place in being so recognisable but I think there’s no obvious reason we wouldn’t have many other layers of physical culture like this. The signal is a bit harder to pick up but I’m sure it’s there. I’m not trying to make any particular point for or against damaging stereotypes here.

hungmung 1y ago

Yeah at least a few kindergarten and elementary school teachers were watching out for toe walkers since at least around the mid-90's. Source: I know people.

Der_Einzige 1y ago
The school bullies sniffed out autistic kids like pigs on truffles with this being a clear tell.

nitwit005 1y ago

I also remember that, and asymmetric baby crawling. That was decades back. I guess the real "news" is just that it made it into the DSM: > Having an "odd gait" is now listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders as a supporting diagnostic feature of autism.

generalizations 1y ago

Basically a measure of whether or not you make an effort to emulate your peers. If you naturally walk weird and don't care about fitting in, then....you're probably on the spectrum.

hx8 1y ago
That's one potential explanation for gait differences. It's also possible that muscle development plays a role, or motor control, or sensory feedback, or a confluence of factors. I'd be particularly interested in seeing if these gait differences are limited to childhood, or if they persist into adulthood. It might simply be delaying a developmental step.
- generalizations 1y ago
  IIRC, toe-walking is actually healthier and puts less strain on the foot. It's a very good way to run long distance, once the muscles are acclimated. I suspect some of us still do that naturally as children for that reason and therefore only adjust due to societal pressure.
  - Melatonic 1y ago
    I think you are mistaking toe-walking with landing fairly flat footed (the way most people tend to run with more minimalist barefoot style shoes) Running purely on the balls of your feet seems like its more of a sprinting thing
    - generalizations 1y ago
      It's def also a sprinting thing, but it can also be a normal running gait - it lets your leg muscles serve as shock absorbers. And if you've ever heard of the description of an athletic person as someone with a 'cat-like' walking gait, I think toe-walking is what's meant.
      - swores 1y ago
        Anecdotally, I played football (soccer) as a kid, and multiple coaches taught me that it's better to rest with weight on balls of feet rather than heels for the benefit of being able to quickly move in any direction rather than being planted on the spot. It was just about when standing still or walking slowly, they never tried to adjust how I ran (though maybe if I'd been in a more professional level they would have), but I can imagine that sort of training might well have affected how I walk if I kept playing into adulthood.

Telemakhos 1y ago

People should be careful with basing psychological stereotypes on gait, as there's already an extensive legacy framework of stereotypes based on gait—are these new stereotypes meaningfully different medical observations grounded in facts, or are they just more stereotypes? Literature on Native Americans, for example, often claims that they walk on the balls of the feet in distinction to "the Anglo," who walks on his heels. For example: > Our sources say that Native Americans tended to land on the ball of the foot (a "forefoot strike"), or flat-footed ("midfoot strike"), rather than landing on the heel and rolling forward ("heel strike"). [0: 90] > Our sources indicate that Native Americans commonly walked with toes pointed straight ahead or turned slightly inward, rather than turned outward. [0: 91] I've pulled just one article here, but there's a huge trove of racial and ethnic gait stereotypes with all sorts of moral implications. It's important not to repeat that stereotyping when trying to address autism. [0] Ranalli, B. 2019. "Thoreau's Indian Stride." The Concord Saunterer 27: 89-110. https://www.jstor.org/stable/45271429 https://www.jstor.org/stable/45271429

kulahan 1y ago
Your comment doesn’t really support its own premise well - you just say that we used to stereotype people and point out what some of those stereotypes were, but not why they’re radically incorrect. You sorta just pointed out that they exist. I’m not of one opinion or the other, I just don’t see why it’s self evident that certain groups of people wouldn’t walk a certain way.
- markburns 1y ago
  I had a realisation recently that we’re pretty comfortable with regional dialect borders being an entrenched and normal thing that reach back in history a thousand years or more and that something as specific as how we move our mouths and tongues is strongly correlated geographically. But we don’t often pay attention to other types of physical and behavioural culture being as geographically entrenched as they sometimes seem to be. Accents hold some special place in being so recognisable but I think there’s no obvious reason we wouldn’t have many other layers of physical culture like this. The signal is a bit harder to pick up but I’m sure it’s there. I’m not trying to make any particular point for or against damaging stereotypes here.