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I think the level of obsessive care people feel obliged to deliver to their single child prior to age of 8 is a part of the same story. You can see how radicall

I think the level of obsessive care people feel obliged to deliver to their single child prior to age of 8 is a part of the same story. You can see how radically it changes even with the second child (not to mention the third) but half of the parents never get there nowadays and think it's the norm.

IshKebab 1y ago
I actually have two children and this is nonsense. Obviously the first child gets more attention than the second, but not in terms of the amount of time and money the childcare involves. And most people (in the UK at least) are not delivering obsessive levels of care. Some are of course, but most aren't.
- alexey-salmin 1y ago
  Since what age did your kids start to go outside and play by themselves? I'm not in the UK, but in France it seems that people generally won't let their kids outside alone until they're 10 or not even then. That makes a difference of several hours of free time a week which is quite significant. Luckily people seem to be fine to leave their kids alone at home, which amounts to a few more hours of time per week. Also luckily there are mandatory public schools starting from the age of 3, so France in general is not bad for raising kids time-wise and money-wise. However I do notice that amount of autonomy people entrust to their kids here is lower than what I tend to do.
  - IshKebab 1y ago
    They're only 4 & 6 so they don't yet. A 6 year old cannot reliably cross the road safely. The NSPCC says 12 is a minimum for leaving kids alone at home: https://www.gov.uk/law-on-leaving-your-child-home-alone https://www.gov.uk/law-on-leaving-your-child-home-alone That's going to depend wildly on the actual child (my eldest is ridiculously responsible so we'll probably go out when she's younger, maybe 10). I really don't think people are focusing on how busy lives will be in 10-12 years when they decide whether or not to have children. Obviously things like finances and childcare when they are young are way more important. Kind of insane that we're even debating that.
  - redeeman 1y ago
    > Also luckily there are mandatory public schools starting from the age of 3 wtf... let the kids be kids. this is totally gross and government violation of families
    - ponector 1y ago
      You say to let moms be forced to stay at home as daycare is expensive?
      - alexey-salmin 1y ago
        I guess he's upset not by the existence of school but by the mandatory nature of it. It's a relatively recent thing, starting 2018 [1]. The official explanation is reducing inequality, making sure rich and poor kids all actually get the same education and not a mere possibility to get it. Unofficial explanations often revolve around integration of immigrants with culture gaps getting too big to bridge by the age of 7. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43562029 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43562029
      - redeeman 1y ago
        im saying dont force anyone to do anything, let alone force 3 year old kids to go to school.

IshKebab 1y ago

I actually have two children and this is nonsense. Obviously the first child gets more attention than the second, but not in terms of the amount of time and money the childcare involves. And most people (in the UK at least) are not delivering obsessive levels of care. Some are of course, but most aren't.

alexey-salmin 1y ago
Since what age did your kids start to go outside and play by themselves? I'm not in the UK, but in France it seems that people generally won't let their kids outside alone until they're 10 or not even then. That makes a difference of several hours of free time a week which is quite significant. Luckily people seem to be fine to leave their kids alone at home, which amounts to a few more hours of time per week. Also luckily there are mandatory public schools starting from the age of 3, so France in general is not bad for raising kids time-wise and money-wise. However I do notice that amount of autonomy people entrust to their kids here is lower than what I tend to do.
- IshKebab 1y ago
  They're only 4 & 6 so they don't yet. A 6 year old cannot reliably cross the road safely. The NSPCC says 12 is a minimum for leaving kids alone at home: https://www.gov.uk/law-on-leaving-your-child-home-alone https://www.gov.uk/law-on-leaving-your-child-home-alone That's going to depend wildly on the actual child (my eldest is ridiculously responsible so we'll probably go out when she's younger, maybe 10). I really don't think people are focusing on how busy lives will be in 10-12 years when they decide whether or not to have children. Obviously things like finances and childcare when they are young are way more important. Kind of insane that we're even debating that.
- redeeman 1y ago
  > Also luckily there are mandatory public schools starting from the age of 3 wtf... let the kids be kids. this is totally gross and government violation of families
  - ponector 1y ago
    You say to let moms be forced to stay at home as daycare is expensive?
    - alexey-salmin 1y ago
      I guess he's upset not by the existence of school but by the mandatory nature of it. It's a relatively recent thing, starting 2018 [1]. The official explanation is reducing inequality, making sure rich and poor kids all actually get the same education and not a mere possibility to get it. Unofficial explanations often revolve around integration of immigrants with culture gaps getting too big to bridge by the age of 7. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43562029 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43562029
    - redeeman 1y ago
      im saying dont force anyone to do anything, let alone force 3 year old kids to go to school.