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All this Retina talk makes me sick. Apple doesn't have this technology under control. They screwed up. My first Retina screen had horrible image persistence pr

by arrrg 14y ago

All this Retina talk makes me sick. Apple doesn't have this technology under control. They screwed up. My first Retina screen had horrible image persistence problems. The replacement from Apple now has the same problems. Coincidence? In the Munich Apple Store I had the opportunity to check four machines (of the seven they had standing around), all four had the exact same problem. Apple can't build them now, they really shouldn't try to build more of them.

shawnz 14y ago
Cry me a river. That's the price of early adoption. "Retina" displays at sizes larger than 4" have only been available for less than 6 months.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  I think it is valid to point out the flaws of a product which is regarded as market-leading. For example: why aren't other companies offering similar products? Could in part be because of problems such as this. If we can't be a little honest about a company that is (I believe) bigger than Wal-mart then I don't know what company WOULD be strong enough to withstand mild criticism.
  - enraged_camel 14y ago
    The flaws are real, but they are blown way out of proportion with comments like "Apple doesn't have this technology under control. They screwed up."
    - arrrg 14y ago
      I’m sorry, but selling a product with a defect like that is just unacceptable. There are no ifs and buts about that. That’s just how it is. It would be great if they could fix this issue. I would be overjoyed. However, they seem to be unable to, now even going so far as talking the defect down.
      - enraged_camel 14y ago
        >>I’m sorry, but selling a product with a defect like that is just unacceptable. There are no ifs and buts about that. That’s just how it is. Unacceptable to who? The products in question are selling by the millions. Clearly, the market finds them very acceptable. In the grand scheme of things, what you think is largely irrelevant.
        arrrg 14y ago
        Unacceptable as in illegal. Selling defect products means the contract of sale is void. At least where I live. I mean, how deluded can you be to talk down this problem? It’s a defect product, pure and simple.
        bigiain 14y ago
        CRT burn-in never got classified as a "contract of sale voiding defect". Is the retina display "defect" a significantly different thing? (I can't tell from any of the commentary I've heard whether its a "permanent, irreversible screen change", or a temporary "ghosting" of previous display only persistent over a few second/minute/hours timescale.)
        simcop2387 14y ago
        I'm wondering the same thing. From what I see described it's the same kind of thing that some very early LCD screens had 10-15 years ago, and might even be tolerable if you use something like LCDScrub[1] to fight it regularly. Xscreensaver has a work-alike in it's set also that i've used before on some very old screens that had problems. [1] http://toastycode.com/lcdscrub/ http://toastycode.com/lcdscrub/
        arrrg 14y ago
        What the hell? How could that be even remotely acceptable? It plainly is not. I mean, Apple seems to agree, at least for now. Every single Apple employee I talked to immediately recognised it as an obvious and unacceptable defect. (The one employee I showed it to first exclaimed “Holy shit!”, I didn’t even have to say anything beyond “Could you please hide the Safari window?”) And that’s what it is.
- pook1e 14y ago
  What? Phones with 720p displays have been available since last year. I'd say that qualifies as "Retina".
  - adgar 14y ago
    >> "Retina" displays at sizes larger than 4"
- arrrg 14y ago
  I’m not crying. I accept that something like this is a possibility. Fixing it, however, is not my responsibility and I will just declare the sales contract null and void if Apple continues to be unable to fix this issue. It’s quite simple and I have the right. And it’s a damn shame, actually. In every other respect the MBPr is an awesome machine. (Also, I never had any problems with first gen Apple products. All through the last ten years Apple has been excellent in releasing pretty great first gen models.)
  - arctangent 14y ago
    > I will just declare the sales contract null and void if Apple continues to be unable to fix this issue. It’s quite simple and I have the right. I'm not suggesting that what you say is not true, but I am interested in learning more about what rights you think you have in respect of this issue. I'm from the UK, and our "Sale of Goods Act" states that goods must be: - "as described", - "of satisfactory quality", and = "fit for purpose" (including any specific purpose that you agreed with the seller) Of these three tests, the first second one would be sufficient reason to return a device with a faulty display. Summary of UK law, for those who are interested: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/ http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/underst...
sylvinus 14y ago
I got a frozen pixel on mine and then it went completely dark! First time I have had to return a brand new Mac to the store...
- ghshephard 14y ago
  From 2000 through 2005 I purchased four LCD screens. Not a single one came without either (A) dark pixels, or (B) pixels that were "Always on" - in one case I had three dead pixels. Dell and Apple (vendors of these screens) indicated that the failure rate/location of the bad pixels was low enough, that they wouldn't take a return. I lived with it. I find it interesting that since 2006, the three Screens I've purchased have had 0 bad pixels. And, in general, people are reporting significantly fewer LCDs with bad pixels (either always on or always off). With regards to your Mac - was it within the first 30 days? Is Apple now allowing returns for a single bad pixel? One nice thing about the Retina Display MBPro - a single dead pixel is probably irrelevant - you'll never notice.
  - bigiain 14y ago
    I'd suspect two causes behind this. 1) as the manufacturing experience increases, the defect rate will (probably) drop. And 2) there is now an established market for minorly defected LCD panels in cut-price no-brand-name monitors, so panels sold to brand names can afford to have QA tightened up more by selling marginal panels into the secondary supply chain instead of just shipping or junking them, allowing the "brand name ship" cutoff point to be somewhat higher.
refulgentis 14y ago
I have one and it's completely fine. I saw quite a few, between WWDC and (too many) trips to my local Apple Store, and I find it hard to believe that the flagship model of a large multinational computer company is fundamentally broken.
- arrrg 14y ago
  You might have a Samsung screen. All the screens I tested were LG screens. The test is quite easy but you wouldn’t notice the defect just like that. Change the background to the dark grey, open up Safari, leave it in one place for two minutes, hide the window. The outline of the address bar was very clearly recognisable on all four machines I tested in the Munich Apple Store. It’s a bit harder to see on colourful background and you need more than two minutes, but it’s definitely also visible there. With my replacement the image retention defect also only showed up after one week of daily use. I think it’s very likely that a large number (likely quite a few more than one percent) are affected by this problem. I think it’s exceedingly unlikely that this is not a problem with shoddy quality control.
  - Xcelerate 14y ago
    Yep. I'm on my 2nd display with that problem. The thing is, when I replaced the first one in store, I (along with my father and the Apple employee) scrutinized the screen to see if it had image persistence. It did not. It does now, which indicates that the problem developed over time. Both screens have been LG -- I think all LG screens will eventually develop the problem to some degree. It's not noticeable except under certain circumstances (light to dark backgrounds).
    - ars 14y ago
      It's heat related. It will only happen once the LCD gets warm. So if you test it with a freshly booted up machine you won't see it. If it bothers you severely, get a cheap USB fan and cool the screen. (Although that may be more annoying than the persistence......)
  - zyb09 14y ago
baddox 14y ago
> Coincidence? Yes, this could very easily be a coincidence and not at all representative of the defect manifestation rates.
- arrrg 14y ago
  It could. However, that is exceedingly unlikely if all four MBPr I could check in the Munich Apple Store exhibit the exact same problem.
  - baddox 14y ago
    Why is that exceedingly unlikely? All the display units were probably from the same manufacturing batch, and may have even been among the earliest manufactured (which could have an effect on defect rates).
    - arrrg 14y ago
      Could. Or not. Who knows. As I see it this seems to be a massive issue Apple does not have under control. I mean, if it were a problem with a bad batch, why was my replacement screen also affected? I can only work with what I have access to. And what I have access to makes the situation look very dire indeed.
      - ceejayoz 14y ago
        > As I see it this seems to be a massive issue Apple does not have under control. As you see it I don't see how you can claim it's massive. > I mean, if it were a problem with a bad batch, why was my replacement screen also affected? Maybe it was from the same batch?
        arrrg 14y ago
        Look, it’s unlikely that this has anything to do with a bad batch. People are still getting defect machines all the time, the week in which they were built don’t seem to play a role. It’s a massive fucking problem.

by arrrg 14y ago

shawnz 14y ago

Cry me a river. That's the price of early adoption. "Retina" displays at sizes larger than 4" have only been available for less than 6 months.

slurgfest 14y ago
I think it is valid to point out the flaws of a product which is regarded as market-leading. For example: why aren't other companies offering similar products? Could in part be because of problems such as this. If we can't be a little honest about a company that is (I believe) bigger than Wal-mart then I don't know what company WOULD be strong enough to withstand mild criticism.
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  The flaws are real, but they are blown way out of proportion with comments like "Apple doesn't have this technology under control. They screwed up."
  - arrrg 14y ago
    I’m sorry, but selling a product with a defect like that is just unacceptable. There are no ifs and buts about that. That’s just how it is. It would be great if they could fix this issue. I would be overjoyed. However, they seem to be unable to, now even going so far as talking the defect down.
    - enraged_camel 14y ago
      >>I’m sorry, but selling a product with a defect like that is just unacceptable. There are no ifs and buts about that. That’s just how it is. Unacceptable to who? The products in question are selling by the millions. Clearly, the market finds them very acceptable. In the grand scheme of things, what you think is largely irrelevant.
      - arrrg 14y ago
        Unacceptable as in illegal. Selling defect products means the contract of sale is void. At least where I live. I mean, how deluded can you be to talk down this problem? It’s a defect product, pure and simple.
        bigiain 14y ago
        CRT burn-in never got classified as a "contract of sale voiding defect". Is the retina display "defect" a significantly different thing? (I can't tell from any of the commentary I've heard whether its a "permanent, irreversible screen change", or a temporary "ghosting" of previous display only persistent over a few second/minute/hours timescale.)
        simcop2387 14y ago
        I'm wondering the same thing. From what I see described it's the same kind of thing that some very early LCD screens had 10-15 years ago, and might even be tolerable if you use something like LCDScrub[1] to fight it regularly. Xscreensaver has a work-alike in it's set also that i've used before on some very old screens that had problems. [1] http://toastycode.com/lcdscrub/ http://toastycode.com/lcdscrub/
        arrrg 14y ago
        What the hell? How could that be even remotely acceptable? It plainly is not. I mean, Apple seems to agree, at least for now. Every single Apple employee I talked to immediately recognised it as an obvious and unacceptable defect. (The one employee I showed it to first exclaimed “Holy shit!”, I didn’t even have to say anything beyond “Could you please hide the Safari window?”) And that’s what it is.
pook1e 14y ago
What? Phones with 720p displays have been available since last year. I'd say that qualifies as "Retina".
- adgar 14y ago
  >> "Retina" displays at sizes larger than 4"
arrrg 14y ago
I’m not crying. I accept that something like this is a possibility. Fixing it, however, is not my responsibility and I will just declare the sales contract null and void if Apple continues to be unable to fix this issue. It’s quite simple and I have the right. And it’s a damn shame, actually. In every other respect the MBPr is an awesome machine. (Also, I never had any problems with first gen Apple products. All through the last ten years Apple has been excellent in releasing pretty great first gen models.)
- arctangent 14y ago
  > I will just declare the sales contract null and void if Apple continues to be unable to fix this issue. It’s quite simple and I have the right. I'm not suggesting that what you say is not true, but I am interested in learning more about what rights you think you have in respect of this issue. I'm from the UK, and our "Sale of Goods Act" states that goods must be: - "as described", - "of satisfactory quality", and = "fit for purpose" (including any specific purpose that you agreed with the seller) Of these three tests, the first second one would be sufficient reason to return a device with a faulty display. Summary of UK law, for those who are interested: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/ http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/underst...

sylvinus 14y ago

I got a frozen pixel on mine and then it went completely dark! First time I have had to return a brand new Mac to the store...

ghshephard 14y ago
From 2000 through 2005 I purchased four LCD screens. Not a single one came without either (A) dark pixels, or (B) pixels that were "Always on" - in one case I had three dead pixels. Dell and Apple (vendors of these screens) indicated that the failure rate/location of the bad pixels was low enough, that they wouldn't take a return. I lived with it. I find it interesting that since 2006, the three Screens I've purchased have had 0 bad pixels. And, in general, people are reporting significantly fewer LCDs with bad pixels (either always on or always off). With regards to your Mac - was it within the first 30 days? Is Apple now allowing returns for a single bad pixel? One nice thing about the Retina Display MBPro - a single dead pixel is probably irrelevant - you'll never notice.
- bigiain 14y ago
  I'd suspect two causes behind this. 1) as the manufacturing experience increases, the defect rate will (probably) drop. And 2) there is now an established market for minorly defected LCD panels in cut-price no-brand-name monitors, so panels sold to brand names can afford to have QA tightened up more by selling marginal panels into the secondary supply chain instead of just shipping or junking them, allowing the "brand name ship" cutoff point to be somewhat higher.

refulgentis 14y ago

I have one and it's completely fine. I saw quite a few, between WWDC and (too many) trips to my local Apple Store, and I find it hard to believe that the flagship model of a large multinational computer company is fundamentally broken.

arrrg 14y ago
You might have a Samsung screen. All the screens I tested were LG screens. The test is quite easy but you wouldn’t notice the defect just like that. Change the background to the dark grey, open up Safari, leave it in one place for two minutes, hide the window. The outline of the address bar was very clearly recognisable on all four machines I tested in the Munich Apple Store. It’s a bit harder to see on colourful background and you need more than two minutes, but it’s definitely also visible there. With my replacement the image retention defect also only showed up after one week of daily use. I think it’s very likely that a large number (likely quite a few more than one percent) are affected by this problem. I think it’s exceedingly unlikely that this is not a problem with shoddy quality control.
- Xcelerate 14y ago
  Yep. I'm on my 2nd display with that problem. The thing is, when I replaced the first one in store, I (along with my father and the Apple employee) scrutinized the screen to see if it had image persistence. It did not. It does now, which indicates that the problem developed over time. Both screens have been LG -- I think all LG screens will eventually develop the problem to some degree. It's not noticeable except under certain circumstances (light to dark backgrounds).
  - ars 14y ago
    It's heat related. It will only happen once the LCD gets warm. So if you test it with a freshly booted up machine you won't see it. If it bothers you severely, get a cheap USB fan and cool the screen. (Although that may be more annoying than the persistence......)
- zyb09 14y ago

baddox 14y ago

> Coincidence? Yes, this could very easily be a coincidence and not at all representative of the defect manifestation rates.

arrrg 14y ago
It could. However, that is exceedingly unlikely if all four MBPr I could check in the Munich Apple Store exhibit the exact same problem.
- baddox 14y ago
  Why is that exceedingly unlikely? All the display units were probably from the same manufacturing batch, and may have even been among the earliest manufactured (which could have an effect on defect rates).
  - arrrg 14y ago
    Could. Or not. Who knows. As I see it this seems to be a massive issue Apple does not have under control. I mean, if it were a problem with a bad batch, why was my replacement screen also affected? I can only work with what I have access to. And what I have access to makes the situation look very dire indeed.
    - ceejayoz 14y ago
      > As I see it this seems to be a massive issue Apple does not have under control. As you see it I don't see how you can claim it's massive. > I mean, if it were a problem with a bad batch, why was my replacement screen also affected? Maybe it was from the same batch?
      - arrrg 14y ago
        Look, it’s unlikely that this has anything to do with a bad batch. People are still getting defect machines all the time, the week in which they were built don’t seem to play a role. It’s a massive fucking problem.