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Costs $2500-4000/mo for infant care where I am. On top of a $3000/mo mortgage. NE USA. When I see a family of 5 my first thought is "holy fuck they must be load

Costs $2500-4000/mo for infant care where I am. On top of a $3000/mo mortgage. NE USA. When I see a family of 5 my first thought is "holy fuck they must be loaded." Either that or they have one parent who cannot be employed outside the home.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
nervousvarun 1y ago
Another option: In our case we both WFH which allows us to live near my wife's parents. Which means we have the luxury of an involved, local grandparent as an option over infant/childcare. We literally put the $ we'd budgeted for childcare into a 529. Certainly don't want to speak for everyone but at least for us it's an enormous cost savings and is a "win-win" for everyone involved. Another (seemingly less often discussed) advantage to WFH.
- red-iron-pine 1y ago
  same here. not near her parents but close enough to both hers and mine that we can effectively have them rotate through consistently (got a spare room and king sized bed for the g-parents). even just 2-3 days a week is huge from a mental health / down time / get things done around the house.
  - octopoc 1y ago
    I think one dynamic going on here is there is more animosity between generations now than there used to be. Many people get hyped up about their beliefs on social media, and when they go out into the real world they take some of that divisive thinking with them.
    - nervousvarun 1y ago
      Apologies I'm really late replying to this...hope you see it. I think this is an insightful comment with an element of truth and it's really, really sad. Yet another example of the net negative societal impact of social media. Convenience/economic context aside, the grandparent/grandchild relationship/dynamic is incredibly important to a developing psyche.
Aurornis 1y ago
> When I see a family of 5 my first thought is "holy fuck they must be loaded. This is an interesting divide between social media reality of children and the real world. Any parent will recognize that having 5 kids does not mean paying 5X the cost of infant daycare, which is obvious when you think about it. Infant daycare is expensive but it's also temporary. It's also fascinating that so many people assume daycare is the only option. With 5 kids, having a parent stay home or work part time is fine. You can also hire a nanny. Many of my friends do a nanny share where two families split the cost of a nanny to watch both of their kids together. I have friends who took jobs working offset schedules for a while. Many people move closer to parents who are able to help (not an option for everyone, obviously). It's also not the end of the world to take a couple years off work. It's a hurdle, but not the end of the road. Many people do it. I think many childless people who don't spend a lot of time with parents or families become fixated on the infant phase. They see high infant care costs, sleepless nights, changing diapers, and imagine that's what parenting is like. In reality, it's a very short phase of your life.
- 0_____0 1y ago
  I'm expecting a kid in Jan. It was sort of unexpected (earlier than planned by about a year!). I'm gonna be honest I had a really grim talk with my partner about finances... I don't make tech money right now and my partner is not in a high paid field. You make good points and I'm looking into all those options now. I have friends who are doing basically everything you mentioned between them. I do think you missed the extra housing cost associated with children though. It seems like many families simply move out of the urban core when it's time to start or grow their family.
  - twoodfin 1y ago
    Congrats. Take care with the money, as always, but kids are the most rewarding “investment” imaginable.
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  > You can also hire a nanny. Yes, or just have your servants watch them. Most families in the US can't afford a nanny. Daycare is already stretching it. > It's also not the end of the world to take a couple years off work. It's a hurdle, but not the end of the road. Many people do it. Mostly women, and that helps keep the gender pay gap going.
WarOnPrivacy 1y ago
> When I see a family of 5 my first thought is "holy frak they must be loaded." I had 5 kids in the 1990s-2000s economy. I couldn't start out as a couple in this economy. Over the last 30 years, rent went from ~$400/mo to ~$2k/mo. Most critical expenses increased similarly. I now live with my adult kids because together we can afford to live.
billy99k 1y ago
If child care is that expensive, it's cheaper for one person to stay home, unless both parents have high paying jobs.
- triceratops 1y ago
  Revealed preference tells us people would rather have "no kids and 3 money" (credit to Homer Simpson).
- supportengineer 1y ago
  As something of a tautology, when both parents have high paying jobs, child care can charge whatever they want. And they still have limited spaces, which the highly paid parents are now competing for.
- const_cast 1y ago
  It can be, but it's incredibly risky for women to stay home to take care of children. And, let's be honest - they're the ones actually putting in the effort here most of the time. Most women don't want to be at the complete financial behest of their husbands, nor do they want to risk missing out on a decade of work experience.
  - swagasaurus-rex 1y ago
    Men are avoiding marriage due to the possibility of alimony, child support and courts favoring mother’s custody over children. It happened to my dad, my mom got over $1 million in 2011 when they divorced. Overall it seems like marriage is a bad gamble for both genders whenever divorce is easy to get.
    - angmarsbane 1y ago
      Divorce laws vary by state. California is equal property, and alimony kicks in immediately (no minimum length of marriage). As a female, higher earner, I paid my ex-husband alimony for a 1 yr 9 month marriage.
MisterTea 1y ago
> Costs $2500-4000/mo for infant care where I am. That's what grandparents are for. Growing up my immediate family lived in the same neighborhood. My mother's parents lived two blocks away and walked over. My fathers parents lived ~15 minutes away. Everyone worked locally. Baby sitters were always named grandma :-) Now you have to move across the country for a lucrative tech job, leaving behind your support network. You either plan for these things or deal with the consequences. Though I have a feeling many young tech oriented people starting their careers dont have family on their minds... And lastly, it depends on where you live. An ex military friend moved to a shitty town in PA to be near his mother and sister and bought a hose using the GI bill. He has a federal job, five kids and a stay at home wife. Pretty wild to have a family of seven these days but he is happy and doing good. Family support helps big time.
- angmarsbane 1y ago
  I have been in tech for 7 years and it would be a stretch to afford the house I grew up in. Plus the commute to the city from my parents has increased from 45 minutes to 2 hours over the last 30 years. My high school recently closed down because families can't afford to live in the neighborhood.
  - wink 1y ago
    The house my parents bought in the early 90s (after local inflation) would cost between 1/3 and 1/4 of what such a house goes for right now. Big surprise I didn't buy one, but I suppose with 2 incomes we would have bought one for that price.
- bdavbdav 1y ago
  Which worked great when people had long retirements and were procreating early. Grandparents are working longer, older age when their children have children, and generally enjoying retirement more instead of grand parenting.
  - MisterTea 1y ago
    > and generally enjoying retirement more instead of grand parenting. These are just people who never liked kids. My friends parents were still working and went out of their way to watch the kids when available. Believe me, there are people who LOVE kids.
486sx33 1y ago
[dead]
moralestapia 1y ago
The funny thing is that childcare is ... actually free.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

nervousvarun 1y ago

Another option: In our case we both WFH which allows us to live near my wife's parents. Which means we have the luxury of an involved, local grandparent as an option over infant/childcare. We literally put the $ we'd budgeted for childcare into a 529. Certainly don't want to speak for everyone but at least for us it's an enormous cost savings and is a "win-win" for everyone involved. Another (seemingly less often discussed) advantage to WFH.

red-iron-pine 1y ago
same here. not near her parents but close enough to both hers and mine that we can effectively have them rotate through consistently (got a spare room and king sized bed for the g-parents). even just 2-3 days a week is huge from a mental health / down time / get things done around the house.
- octopoc 1y ago
  I think one dynamic going on here is there is more animosity between generations now than there used to be. Many people get hyped up about their beliefs on social media, and when they go out into the real world they take some of that divisive thinking with them.
  - nervousvarun 1y ago
    Apologies I'm really late replying to this...hope you see it. I think this is an insightful comment with an element of truth and it's really, really sad. Yet another example of the net negative societal impact of social media. Convenience/economic context aside, the grandparent/grandchild relationship/dynamic is incredibly important to a developing psyche.

Aurornis 1y ago

> When I see a family of 5 my first thought is "holy fuck they must be loaded. This is an interesting divide between social media reality of children and the real world. Any parent will recognize that having 5 kids does not mean paying 5X the cost of infant daycare, which is obvious when you think about it. Infant daycare is expensive but it's also temporary. It's also fascinating that so many people assume daycare is the only option. With 5 kids, having a parent stay home or work part time is fine. You can also hire a nanny. Many of my friends do a nanny share where two families split the cost of a nanny to watch both of their kids together. I have friends who took jobs working offset schedules for a while. Many people move closer to parents who are able to help (not an option for everyone, obviously). It's also not the end of the world to take a couple years off work. It's a hurdle, but not the end of the road. Many people do it. I think many childless people who don't spend a lot of time with parents or families become fixated on the infant phase. They see high infant care costs, sleepless nights, changing diapers, and imagine that's what parenting is like. In reality, it's a very short phase of your life.

0_____0 1y ago
I'm expecting a kid in Jan. It was sort of unexpected (earlier than planned by about a year!). I'm gonna be honest I had a really grim talk with my partner about finances... I don't make tech money right now and my partner is not in a high paid field. You make good points and I'm looking into all those options now. I have friends who are doing basically everything you mentioned between them. I do think you missed the extra housing cost associated with children though. It seems like many families simply move out of the urban core when it's time to start or grow their family.
- twoodfin 1y ago
  Congrats. Take care with the money, as always, but kids are the most rewarding “investment” imaginable.
IAmBroom 1y ago
> You can also hire a nanny. Yes, or just have your servants watch them. Most families in the US can't afford a nanny. Daycare is already stretching it. > It's also not the end of the world to take a couple years off work. It's a hurdle, but not the end of the road. Many people do it. Mostly women, and that helps keep the gender pay gap going.

WarOnPrivacy 1y ago

> When I see a family of 5 my first thought is "holy frak they must be loaded." I had 5 kids in the 1990s-2000s economy. I couldn't start out as a couple in this economy. Over the last 30 years, rent went from ~$400/mo to ~$2k/mo. Most critical expenses increased similarly. I now live with my adult kids because together we can afford to live.

billy99k 1y ago

If child care is that expensive, it's cheaper for one person to stay home, unless both parents have high paying jobs.

triceratops 1y ago
Revealed preference tells us people would rather have "no kids and 3 money" (credit to Homer Simpson).
supportengineer 1y ago
As something of a tautology, when both parents have high paying jobs, child care can charge whatever they want. And they still have limited spaces, which the highly paid parents are now competing for.
const_cast 1y ago
It can be, but it's incredibly risky for women to stay home to take care of children. And, let's be honest - they're the ones actually putting in the effort here most of the time. Most women don't want to be at the complete financial behest of their husbands, nor do they want to risk missing out on a decade of work experience.
- swagasaurus-rex 1y ago
  Men are avoiding marriage due to the possibility of alimony, child support and courts favoring mother’s custody over children. It happened to my dad, my mom got over $1 million in 2011 when they divorced. Overall it seems like marriage is a bad gamble for both genders whenever divorce is easy to get.
  - angmarsbane 1y ago
    Divorce laws vary by state. California is equal property, and alimony kicks in immediately (no minimum length of marriage). As a female, higher earner, I paid my ex-husband alimony for a 1 yr 9 month marriage.

MisterTea 1y ago

> Costs $2500-4000/mo for infant care where I am. That's what grandparents are for. Growing up my immediate family lived in the same neighborhood. My mother's parents lived two blocks away and walked over. My fathers parents lived ~15 minutes away. Everyone worked locally. Baby sitters were always named grandma :-) Now you have to move across the country for a lucrative tech job, leaving behind your support network. You either plan for these things or deal with the consequences. Though I have a feeling many young tech oriented people starting their careers dont have family on their minds... And lastly, it depends on where you live. An ex military friend moved to a shitty town in PA to be near his mother and sister and bought a hose using the GI bill. He has a federal job, five kids and a stay at home wife. Pretty wild to have a family of seven these days but he is happy and doing good. Family support helps big time.

angmarsbane 1y ago
I have been in tech for 7 years and it would be a stretch to afford the house I grew up in. Plus the commute to the city from my parents has increased from 45 minutes to 2 hours over the last 30 years. My high school recently closed down because families can't afford to live in the neighborhood.
- wink 1y ago
  The house my parents bought in the early 90s (after local inflation) would cost between 1/3 and 1/4 of what such a house goes for right now. Big surprise I didn't buy one, but I suppose with 2 incomes we would have bought one for that price.
bdavbdav 1y ago
Which worked great when people had long retirements and were procreating early. Grandparents are working longer, older age when their children have children, and generally enjoying retirement more instead of grand parenting.
- MisterTea 1y ago
  > and generally enjoying retirement more instead of grand parenting. These are just people who never liked kids. My friends parents were still working and went out of their way to watch the kids when available. Believe me, there are people who LOVE kids.

486sx33 1y ago

[dead]

moralestapia 1y ago

The funny thing is that childcare is ... actually free.