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> I can't find a single open source codebase, actively used in production, and primarily maintained and developed with AI. That's because using AI to write cod

> I can't find a single open source codebase, actively used in production, and primarily maintained and developed with AI. That's because using AI to write code is a poor application of LLM AIs. LLMs are better suited to summary, advice, and reflection than forced into a Rube Goldberg Machine. Use your favorite LLM as a Socratic advisor, but not as a coder, and certainly not as an unreliable worker.

komali2 1y ago
> Use your favorite LLM as a Socratic advisor Can you give an example of what you mean by this?
- hyperadvanced 1y ago
  You read the book and have the llm ask you questions to help deepen your understanding, e.g.
  - aydyn 1y ago
    Or you dont read the book at all and ask the llm to give you the salient points?
    - noah_buddy 1y ago
      Socratic method usually refers to a questioning process, which is what the poster above is getting at in their terminology. Imo
    - teg4n_ 1y ago
      And cross your fingers it didn’t make them up?
      - aydyn 1y ago
        Yes. If it can get me through 10 books in the same time it takes you to get through 1 I am fine with an extra 1% error rate or whatever.
        jdiff 1y ago
        If I spend an afternoon on CliffNotes, I haven't read a hundred books in a day. This isn't one weird trick to accelerate your reading, it's entirely missing the point. If any book could be summarized in a few points, there would be no point to writing anything more than a BuzzFeed listicle.
        aydyn 1y ago
        Lots of books CAN be summarized in a few points.
        komali2 1y ago
        Yes, that's true, but bullet point ideology isn't very useful imo. For example you can easily sum up "How to Win Friends and Influence People" into a few short recommendations. "Empathize with people, listen closely to people, let them do most of the talking, be quick to be upfront and honest with your faults." But it gets tenuous and some of the exact meaning is lost, and the bullet points aren't very convincing on their own of the effectiveness of the recommended methods. The book fleshes out the advice with clarifications as well as stories from Carnegie's life of times he used the techniques and their results. I think humans are good at remembering stories. For example I always remember the story about him letting his dog off the leash in a dog park and how he leveraged his technique for getting off the hook when a cop confronted him about it. I think I remember that better than the single bullet point advice of "readily and quickly admit when you're wrong." In fact I think the end of each chapter succinctly states the exact tip and I'm sure I'm misstating it here. I could use anki to memorize a summary but I don't think I'd be able to as effectively incorporate the techniques into my behavior without the working examples, stories, and evidence he provides. And that's just non fiction. I can't fathom the point of summarizing a fiction book, whose entire enjoyment comes from the reading of it.
        aydyn 1y ago
        I think that perspective is mostly just romanticization of reading, which is fine; if you have a book reading fetish nobody is stopping you from reading books. But in terms of efficiently grokking information I don't think it holds up. Cliff notes is not the same as ChatGPT. Using cliff notes, you only have a fixed bullet point summarization. But with ChatGPT, if a bullet point is not sticking, you can ask ChatGPT to expound on it. Expound on the stories from Carnegie's life and how that lead him to the techniques he talks about. That mode of learning, having someone to bounce discussion back and forth is really efficient for me.
eddythompson80 1y ago
The entire hype for LLMs is that they can *do* anything. Even if only writing code, that could justify their hype. If LLMs mean Grammarly is now a lot better (and offered by big tech) then it’ll be very disappointing (economically speaking)
- bsenftner 1y ago
  I believe it was Flavor Flave that said: "Don't believe the hype", and the pretty much applies to everything humans do.
Arch-TK 1y ago
It's absolutely hilarious reading all these "you're holding it wrong" arguments because every time I find one it contradicts the previous ones.
robwwilliams 1y ago
I support this comment. AI for coding does still involve much prodding and redirecting in my limited experience. Try getting Claude to produce even a simple SVG for a paper is a struggle in my experience. But for helping me as a partner in neurophilosophy conversations Claude is unrivaled even compared to my neurophilosophy colleagues—speed and the responsivness is impossible to beat. LLMs are at pushing me to think harder. They provides the wall against which to bounce ideas, and those bounces often come from surprising and helpful angles.
JimmaDaRustla 1y ago
Agreed. That argument they made was a straw-man which doesn't really pertain to where LLMs are being leveraged today.
- jdiff 1y ago
  The claim that you made was "if you still don't see how LLMs is changing [the IT] industry, you haven't been paying attention." Pointing out that there is no visible evidence of that change in the industry you mentioned and inviting you to provide some where others have repeatedly failed is not attacking a strawman.
usrbinbash 1y ago
> That's because using AI to write code is a poor application of LLM AIs Then why is that exact usecase being talked about ad nauseam by many many many "influencers", including "big names" in the industry? Why is that exact usecase then advertised by leading companies in the industry?
- bsenftner 1y ago
  It probably has a lot to do with those writing the code are not those marketing the finished software, and between the two groups they do not communicate very well. Once marketing gets any idea momentum going, they will go for it, because they can sell it, and then make engineering pay that bill. Not their problem.

komali2 1y ago

> Use your favorite LLM as a Socratic advisor Can you give an example of what you mean by this?

hyperadvanced 1y ago
You read the book and have the llm ask you questions to help deepen your understanding, e.g.
- aydyn 1y ago
  Or you dont read the book at all and ask the llm to give you the salient points?
  - noah_buddy 1y ago
    Socratic method usually refers to a questioning process, which is what the poster above is getting at in their terminology. Imo
  - teg4n_ 1y ago
    And cross your fingers it didn’t make them up?
    - aydyn 1y ago
      Yes. If it can get me through 10 books in the same time it takes you to get through 1 I am fine with an extra 1% error rate or whatever.
      - jdiff 1y ago
        If I spend an afternoon on CliffNotes, I haven't read a hundred books in a day. This isn't one weird trick to accelerate your reading, it's entirely missing the point. If any book could be summarized in a few points, there would be no point to writing anything more than a BuzzFeed listicle.
        aydyn 1y ago
        Lots of books CAN be summarized in a few points.
        komali2 1y ago
        Yes, that's true, but bullet point ideology isn't very useful imo. For example you can easily sum up "How to Win Friends and Influence People" into a few short recommendations. "Empathize with people, listen closely to people, let them do most of the talking, be quick to be upfront and honest with your faults." But it gets tenuous and some of the exact meaning is lost, and the bullet points aren't very convincing on their own of the effectiveness of the recommended methods. The book fleshes out the advice with clarifications as well as stories from Carnegie's life of times he used the techniques and their results. I think humans are good at remembering stories. For example I always remember the story about him letting his dog off the leash in a dog park and how he leveraged his technique for getting off the hook when a cop confronted him about it. I think I remember that better than the single bullet point advice of "readily and quickly admit when you're wrong." In fact I think the end of each chapter succinctly states the exact tip and I'm sure I'm misstating it here. I could use anki to memorize a summary but I don't think I'd be able to as effectively incorporate the techniques into my behavior without the working examples, stories, and evidence he provides. And that's just non fiction. I can't fathom the point of summarizing a fiction book, whose entire enjoyment comes from the reading of it.
        aydyn 1y ago
        I think that perspective is mostly just romanticization of reading, which is fine; if you have a book reading fetish nobody is stopping you from reading books. But in terms of efficiently grokking information I don't think it holds up. Cliff notes is not the same as ChatGPT. Using cliff notes, you only have a fixed bullet point summarization. But with ChatGPT, if a bullet point is not sticking, you can ask ChatGPT to expound on it. Expound on the stories from Carnegie's life and how that lead him to the techniques he talks about. That mode of learning, having someone to bounce discussion back and forth is really efficient for me.

eddythompson80 1y ago

The entire hype for LLMs is that they can *do* anything. Even if only writing code, that could justify their hype. If LLMs mean Grammarly is now a lot better (and offered by big tech) then it’ll be very disappointing (economically speaking)

bsenftner 1y ago
I believe it was Flavor Flave that said: "Don't believe the hype", and the pretty much applies to everything humans do.

Arch-TK 1y ago

It's absolutely hilarious reading all these "you're holding it wrong" arguments because every time I find one it contradicts the previous ones.

robwwilliams 1y ago

I support this comment. AI for coding does still involve much prodding and redirecting in my limited experience. Try getting Claude to produce even a simple SVG for a paper is a struggle in my experience. But for helping me as a partner in neurophilosophy conversations Claude is unrivaled even compared to my neurophilosophy colleagues—speed and the responsivness is impossible to beat. LLMs are at pushing me to think harder. They provides the wall against which to bounce ideas, and those bounces often come from surprising and helpful angles.

JimmaDaRustla 1y ago

Agreed. That argument they made was a straw-man which doesn't really pertain to where LLMs are being leveraged today.

jdiff 1y ago
The claim that you made was "if you still don't see how LLMs is changing [the IT] industry, you haven't been paying attention." Pointing out that there is no visible evidence of that change in the industry you mentioned and inviting you to provide some where others have repeatedly failed is not attacking a strawman.

usrbinbash 1y ago

> That's because using AI to write code is a poor application of LLM AIs Then why is that exact usecase being talked about ad nauseam by many many many "influencers", including "big names" in the industry? Why is that exact usecase then advertised by leading companies in the industry?

bsenftner 1y ago
It probably has a lot to do with those writing the code are not those marketing the finished software, and between the two groups they do not communicate very well. Once marketing gets any idea momentum going, they will go for it, because they can sell it, and then make engineering pay that bill. Not their problem.