6 ms·

> why do i need environmental review to stick a shed in my backyard?? Because cowboys make cowboy decisions, which leads to loss of lives. "We're going to bui

> why do i need environmental review to stick a shed in my backyard?? Because cowboys make cowboy decisions, which leads to loss of lives. "We're going to build on a flood plane, don't worry we've put in protection" turns out they didnt and the things they did made the flooding worse. > companies have a strong incentive not release bad drugs now Given that fentanyl exists and managed to get through, and was widely prescribed by doctors, and the whole industry setup to encourage prescription, I think thats not really true. Its not even like its that effective as a pain relief (https://www.bjanaesthesia.org/article/S0007-0912(17)37428-7/pdf https://www.bjanaesthesia.org/article/S0007-0912(17)37428-7/...)

mistrial9 1y ago
so cowboys meet Darwin and their population drops. An alternative is a "nanny state" where every personal choice must pass regulation. This is as old as the hills, but add new abilities to monitor for compliance at scale; new orders of magnitude advantages for certain high-tech; and new amounts of money in an active and massive economic system. Without prescribing any solution here, is it that much of a stretch to think that the FDA in practice exhibited dysfunctional characteristics in markets? With the longevity of the players and the deep pockets associated with health care, is it a stretch to see large changes to the institution as constructive in the long-run?
- freejazz 1y ago
  >so cowboys meet Darwin and their population drops. I'm not sure why you think "let people poison others for profit, their customers will die" is a good argument.
  - mistrial9 1y ago
    no - I said nothing like that
    - freejazz 1y ago
      What's the difference? You called them cowboys? Pretended like companies wouldn't actually sell poison?
- KaiserPro 1y ago
  The point of the nanny state is to stop aggressive actors causing widespread harm. not allowing companies to poison people for profit, ensuring people are qualified to do safety critical jobs. Making sure that companies can't cut OSHA for profit, ensuring that buildings are built to withstand the weather properly, even though it costs more. A lot of the "nanny state" shit is there because people died. Now, of course some of it is because conservatives/liberals/that class you don't like got their knickers in a twist as well. But that tends to disappear pretty quick. But that means that big money can use that as a spring board to remove expensive regulation. You want clean air? but thats expensive! nevermind, soot spewing engines is manly, everything else is what those people you don't like do. You want social media to stop sending porn to tweens? freedom of speech my friend! thats what makes america better than communism. You want your child to read the great american novels? oh did we say freedom of speech? no we meant don't do our country down. All of that is theatre, what matters is the food and drugs you eat are safe, effective and well controlled so that the most amount of good is allowed with the least amount of harm
  - mistrial9 1y ago
    this is moronic twaddle lacking any middle ground. If you want to prove that public forums are a doomed method of communication, this post is a great start. I mentioned none of those things
    - KaiserPro 1y ago
      There is no need to be so emotional, I'm not after your first born. If you want a debate, you'll need to engage with the subject, rather than get angry and fire off a bunch of logical fallacies. Especially when you explicitly mentioned the "nanny state"
LorenPechtel 1y ago
Fentanyl is not a bad drug. It's deadly *on the street* because of it's tendency to clump, meaning that your average drug dealer is not competent to dilute it properly. That's not a problem when handled by professionals.
- KaiserPro 1y ago
  my friend, opiods out of acute settings are super bad. Being prescribed opiods to take home, is a sure fire way to get someone addicted https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/opioids-risk-of-dependence-and-addiction https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/opioids-risk-of-depend... What is even more bad is companies running competitions to encourage family doctors prescribe opiods for long term use. sure heroin on the streets is bad, don't get me wrong, but giving it to unsuspecting patients, getting them addicted and then effectively forcing them onto the streets is even worse. Advertising of drugs is fucking stupid, bribing doctors is even more stupid. But as thats where a lot of money comes for politics, its not going to change.
  - LorenPechtel 1y ago
    Surefire? That doesn't say that. And I see a problem: Typical signs of addiction are: ... Expression of a need for more, or reporting additional use of other pain-relief medicines In other words, if the doctor doesn't prescribe a high enough dose for the situation the patient has an addiction problem.

mistrial9 1y ago

so cowboys meet Darwin and their population drops. An alternative is a "nanny state" where every personal choice must pass regulation. This is as old as the hills, but add new abilities to monitor for compliance at scale; new orders of magnitude advantages for certain high-tech; and new amounts of money in an active and massive economic system. Without prescribing any solution here, is it that much of a stretch to think that the FDA in practice exhibited dysfunctional characteristics in markets? With the longevity of the players and the deep pockets associated with health care, is it a stretch to see large changes to the institution as constructive in the long-run?

freejazz 1y ago
>so cowboys meet Darwin and their population drops. I'm not sure why you think "let people poison others for profit, their customers will die" is a good argument.
- mistrial9 1y ago
  no - I said nothing like that
  - freejazz 1y ago
    What's the difference? You called them cowboys? Pretended like companies wouldn't actually sell poison?
KaiserPro 1y ago
The point of the nanny state is to stop aggressive actors causing widespread harm. not allowing companies to poison people for profit, ensuring people are qualified to do safety critical jobs. Making sure that companies can't cut OSHA for profit, ensuring that buildings are built to withstand the weather properly, even though it costs more. A lot of the "nanny state" shit is there because people died. Now, of course some of it is because conservatives/liberals/that class you don't like got their knickers in a twist as well. But that tends to disappear pretty quick. But that means that big money can use that as a spring board to remove expensive regulation. You want clean air? but thats expensive! nevermind, soot spewing engines is manly, everything else is what those people you don't like do. You want social media to stop sending porn to tweens? freedom of speech my friend! thats what makes america better than communism. You want your child to read the great american novels? oh did we say freedom of speech? no we meant don't do our country down. All of that is theatre, what matters is the food and drugs you eat are safe, effective and well controlled so that the most amount of good is allowed with the least amount of harm
- mistrial9 1y ago
  this is moronic twaddle lacking any middle ground. If you want to prove that public forums are a doomed method of communication, this post is a great start. I mentioned none of those things
  - KaiserPro 1y ago
    There is no need to be so emotional, I'm not after your first born. If you want a debate, you'll need to engage with the subject, rather than get angry and fire off a bunch of logical fallacies. Especially when you explicitly mentioned the "nanny state"

LorenPechtel 1y ago

Fentanyl is not a bad drug. It's deadly *on the street* because of it's tendency to clump, meaning that your average drug dealer is not competent to dilute it properly. That's not a problem when handled by professionals.

KaiserPro 1y ago
my friend, opiods out of acute settings are super bad. Being prescribed opiods to take home, is a sure fire way to get someone addicted https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/opioids-risk-of-dependence-and-addiction https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/opioids-risk-of-depend... What is even more bad is companies running competitions to encourage family doctors prescribe opiods for long term use. sure heroin on the streets is bad, don't get me wrong, but giving it to unsuspecting patients, getting them addicted and then effectively forcing them onto the streets is even worse. Advertising of drugs is fucking stupid, bribing doctors is even more stupid. But as thats where a lot of money comes for politics, its not going to change.
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  Surefire? That doesn't say that. And I see a problem: Typical signs of addiction are: ... Expression of a need for more, or reporting additional use of other pain-relief medicines In other words, if the doctor doesn't prescribe a high enough dose for the situation the patient has an addiction problem.