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Anti-trust for an industry where there are at least five companies doing well in any given space? That's not called a monopoly, it's called competition. Edit:

Anti-trust for an industry where there are at least five companies doing well in any given space? That's not called a monopoly, it's called competition. Edit: I wasn't accusing everyone who is critical of tech of being a Luddite. The attitude that nearly every tech company is a net negative for society goes quite a bit beyond criticism.

budududuroiu 1y ago
You read an article that talks about consolidation of food delivery and increasingly high barriers to new entrants and think that’s competition?
- fasterik 1y ago
  Where does the article mention barriers to entry? My reading is that that the consolidation is due to venture capital moving investment to other areas. Anyone who wants to start a new food delivery app is still free to do so, as long as they can find funding. This is the definition of competition according to Wikipedia: "Competition is a scenario where different economic firms are in contention to obtain goods that are limited by varying the elements of the marketing mix: price, product, promotion and place." Yes, sounds like competition to me. Network effects are not anti-competitive.
  - esperent 1y ago
    > Anyone who wants to start a new food delivery app is still free to do so, as long as they can find funding. This argument is meaningless because you can always make it. There's a quasi-monopoly? Yeah but you're still allowed to make a new company so it's not really a problem is it? You'll fail, unless you're backed by even more powerful venture capital, but I don't care about that because I get to keep making the argument that it's a free market. The reality is that the only way you can compete in this market is to already be a billion dollar company, or have the backing of one. That's not a free market by any reasonable definition. What it is, is a clear case of technofeudalism.
loloquwowndueo 1y ago
There’s such a thing as collusion - convenient way to claim “we’re not a monopoly, there’s at least 4 more competitors” when behind the scenes they’re all talking and agreeing in price fixing, limiting offer, blocking other competitors.
- wenc 1y ago
  That is known as a "cartel," which is also prosecutable under the Sherman Act. It applies to not just monopolies. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.
alisonatwork 1y ago
Now imagine you live in one of the other 190 countries of the world who do not or no longer have significant players in the industry because they were crushed by those five foreign companies. It's not competition when the wealth and power is so disproportionately held by the same people in the same places.
- rangestransform 1y ago
  As a software engineer in the US, I like that the US sucks up money from the rest of the world, that’s why my dollar goes so far when I travel and why I can retire in a non-reserve-currency country for cheap
  - chrisdirkis 1y ago
    Do you not feel as though that's incredibly anti-social? It's a very zero-sum "I'd prefer if things were better for me in direct proportion to how much worse they'll be for '_others_'"
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    Right, and you'd like if there was a special 0% income tax only for software engineers or if every software engineer got a free pony too. That's why we need to also consider the needs of people that aren't American software engineers.
- itake 1y ago
  Can you name them which countries this impacts? China (basically) only has didi. Not much the USA can say here. Southeast has Grab, and within each country there are at least 2 local competitors (Be, GoJek, Bolt, Line Man, Bluebird, etc). I believe Doordash just bought Deliveroo, making it the only American competitor in SEA. In Europe, the main players are local food panda / Delivery hero and Just Eat. India's winning food delivery is Swiggy. What countries have both the talent to build a food delivery app and the USA is the dominant player?
  - alisonatwork 1y ago
anigbrowl 1y ago
It's an oligopoly.
motorest 1y ago
> Anti-trust for an industry where there are at least five companies doing well in any given space? That's not called a monopoly, it's called competition You need to be completely out of touch with reality to read an article on 5 companies dominating a global market and your take from that info is that there are no anticompetitive practices because 5 is more than 1.
- lynx97 1y ago
  "completely out of touch" is definitely an exaggregationg. Besides, as if competition would really increase quality. Where I dwell, we have around 3 active delivery services. Only 1 of them has an app with useable UX, icnluding accessibility. Competition? Meh. What for? So that I can watch the smaller guys blunder their way to the top?
  - motorest 1y ago
    > "completely out of touch" is definitely an exaggregationg. Is it, though? I mean, can you present a coherent argument supporting the idea that a global market being dominated by 5 multinational corporations does not flag a risk of anticompetitive practices? > Competition? Meh. What for? So that I can watch the smaller guys blunder their way to the top? Is this what you have to offer to refute the idea you're completely out of touch?
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      If by "coherent" you mean the Webster definition then yeah, anyone can. If by coherent you mean "using only facts and opinions that I accept at face value within my world view" then no. Personally, I think 5 is way too little. But there are probably some markets for various products and services where 5 is fine. I don't think the number matters so much as that there be potential for a long tail of upstarts who could potentially displace a big player quickly. Whether 95% of the market is captured 2 or 22 players doesn't matter, they gotta know that someone is waiting to take their place if they screw up.
- jack_h 1y ago

budududuroiu 1y ago

You read an article that talks about consolidation of food delivery and increasingly high barriers to new entrants and think that’s competition?

fasterik 1y ago
Where does the article mention barriers to entry? My reading is that that the consolidation is due to venture capital moving investment to other areas. Anyone who wants to start a new food delivery app is still free to do so, as long as they can find funding. This is the definition of competition according to Wikipedia: "Competition is a scenario where different economic firms are in contention to obtain goods that are limited by varying the elements of the marketing mix: price, product, promotion and place." Yes, sounds like competition to me. Network effects are not anti-competitive.
- esperent 1y ago
  > Anyone who wants to start a new food delivery app is still free to do so, as long as they can find funding. This argument is meaningless because you can always make it. There's a quasi-monopoly? Yeah but you're still allowed to make a new company so it's not really a problem is it? You'll fail, unless you're backed by even more powerful venture capital, but I don't care about that because I get to keep making the argument that it's a free market. The reality is that the only way you can compete in this market is to already be a billion dollar company, or have the backing of one. That's not a free market by any reasonable definition. What it is, is a clear case of technofeudalism.

loloquwowndueo 1y ago

There’s such a thing as collusion - convenient way to claim “we’re not a monopoly, there’s at least 4 more competitors” when behind the scenes they’re all talking and agreeing in price fixing, limiting offer, blocking other competitors.

wenc 1y ago
That is known as a "cartel," which is also prosecutable under the Sherman Act. It applies to not just monopolies. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

alisonatwork 1y ago

Now imagine you live in one of the other 190 countries of the world who do not or no longer have significant players in the industry because they were crushed by those five foreign companies. It's not competition when the wealth and power is so disproportionately held by the same people in the same places.

rangestransform 1y ago
As a software engineer in the US, I like that the US sucks up money from the rest of the world, that’s why my dollar goes so far when I travel and why I can retire in a non-reserve-currency country for cheap
- chrisdirkis 1y ago
  Do you not feel as though that's incredibly anti-social? It's a very zero-sum "I'd prefer if things were better for me in direct proportion to how much worse they'll be for '_others_'"
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  Right, and you'd like if there was a special 0% income tax only for software engineers or if every software engineer got a free pony too. That's why we need to also consider the needs of people that aren't American software engineers.
itake 1y ago
Can you name them which countries this impacts? China (basically) only has didi. Not much the USA can say here. Southeast has Grab, and within each country there are at least 2 local competitors (Be, GoJek, Bolt, Line Man, Bluebird, etc). I believe Doordash just bought Deliveroo, making it the only American competitor in SEA. In Europe, the main players are local food panda / Delivery hero and Just Eat. India's winning food delivery is Swiggy. What countries have both the talent to build a food delivery app and the USA is the dominant player?
- alisonatwork 1y ago

anigbrowl 1y ago

It's an oligopoly.

motorest 1y ago

> Anti-trust for an industry where there are at least five companies doing well in any given space? That's not called a monopoly, it's called competition You need to be completely out of touch with reality to read an article on 5 companies dominating a global market and your take from that info is that there are no anticompetitive practices because 5 is more than 1.

lynx97 1y ago
"completely out of touch" is definitely an exaggregationg. Besides, as if competition would really increase quality. Where I dwell, we have around 3 active delivery services. Only 1 of them has an app with useable UX, icnluding accessibility. Competition? Meh. What for? So that I can watch the smaller guys blunder their way to the top?
- motorest 1y ago
  > "completely out of touch" is definitely an exaggregationg. Is it, though? I mean, can you present a coherent argument supporting the idea that a global market being dominated by 5 multinational corporations does not flag a risk of anticompetitive practices? > Competition? Meh. What for? So that I can watch the smaller guys blunder their way to the top? Is this what you have to offer to refute the idea you're completely out of touch?
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    If by "coherent" you mean the Webster definition then yeah, anyone can. If by coherent you mean "using only facts and opinions that I accept at face value within my world view" then no. Personally, I think 5 is way too little. But there are probably some markets for various products and services where 5 is fine. I don't think the number matters so much as that there be potential for a long tail of upstarts who could potentially displace a big player quickly. Whether 95% of the market is captured 2 or 22 players doesn't matter, they gotta know that someone is waiting to take their place if they screw up.
jack_h 1y ago